• I added an agora current events board to contain discussions of political and current events to that category. This was due to a increase support for a separate board for political talk.

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Ian Moone

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Too many people lament the idea of Passions for me these days. I don't mind so many people being inspired by the Stoics or the Buddhists, but to pretend that you shouldn't want is absurd. Passions are how we stay motivated, how to stay virile. To not have or understand how to use Passion is to be numb and absent potency.

If anything, Hosea 4:6 seems very applicable here.
Later on, with the invention of the printing press by Johannes Gutenberg, the knowledge and sapience became more accessible to a rising bourgeois class, who boosted movements like the Renaissance and the Enlightenment, and contributed to humanity´s development.
Right. The "elite" weren't always nefarious in their collusions.
Nowadays, our access to information, and therefore, to knowledge and sapience, is in the palm of our hand. In our very fingers lies the biggest library of the history of humanity: our phones. All the knowledge that all people throughout the ages have brought to others is free. And we don´t use it.
Most people do use it, the vast majority of Marketing/Influence efforts attempt to buy as much of your Dopamine as possible and saturated choice array paralyzes choice parameters.

AI is mostly a tool with packaged go learn stuff outsourcing rails, where it more or less compiles a series of tasks and then completes them in order. Just because we have tools designed to shorten our involvement with a task doesn't mean we don't technically interact with each of the necessary steps in accumulating knowledge. I find this view to be too materialistic and, while I don't want to wane into Metaphysics every time I post exactly, this is an area of pertinence for sure.

Marking/Influence efforts are largely designed to capture and maintain your attention for as long as possible. The industry overall isn't exactly new and their methods are surely refined and even in ways most people wouldn't expect by now. The idea that this is an option for most people to begin with is a bit overblown for me.

Finally, if you have too many choices to make, it can really fatigue your ability to decide. It's why when you take toddlers for ice cream, you only tell them they can choose from a few flavors. If you don't, you'll stand there for twenty minutes describing to them what Mint Chocolate Chip is. Since there's too many choices to make, it's difficult for most people to narrow the choice array to solely acceptable or viable decisions.
In an era where being intelligent is practically free, it´s our fault to be dumb.
That's entirely untrue. No one gets to decide how intelligent they are. I could entertain an exception of sorts (which, again, I'll admit gets metaphysical), but, by and large, there's no real exception for genetic predisposition to IQ ranges. The exception even proves the role here. What I think you meant is there's no reason to be too lazy about applying effort to informed discussion. Personally, I'm not sure I completely agree. I don't want everyone to outsource all their thought processes to some AI like an automaton, but that's unfortunately where we're headed here (for people outside of a certain IQ range, that is).
 

CLOVER-ZERO

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Too many people lament the idea of Passions for me these days. I don't mind so many people being inspired by the Stoics or the Buddhists, but to pretend that you shouldn't want is absurd. Passions are how we stay motivated, how to stay virile. To not have or understand how to use Passion is to be numb and absent potency.
The irony of the denial of desire is that is causes a greater hunger in response. Many of those who seek to follow a Stoic or Buddhist mindset also don't read into how both expressed not extreme asceticism but a life of balance, to avoid being consumed by the fires of passion in excess. Also, it takes a great developed sense of self awareness and selflessness to know when to let go of obsession and to break free of bad habits, or at least make sure they are less frequent. Of course, many people also don't ask and question the life they lead, and whether it truly helps them or is actually detrimental to them.

I also want to bring up this little brainspark in my mind made earlier today, in that there are plenty of people who have noticed today's emphasis on "mindfulness", "relentless optimism", and for an observation of my own, to be complacent in a tepid state of an empty promise that "better days are coming if we just blindly work and consume in this world that just had a great recession, but that's totally not a problem of the world we currently have as our societal infrastructure, don't worry about those problems, or the rotten people who don't have to worry and can be indulgent and even abusive because they rule, own, or manage said world."

I'm not asking for a mansion, but today's world where everything is getting pushed towards an edge of a disparate society of haves and have nots is becoming a world of fear as prices are going up and it is becoming harder to maintain a middle class lifestyle as everyone is pretending "life is great and everything is okay". And it appears that many higher ups want a world of fear again....
 

Ian Moone

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The irony of the denial of desire is that is causes a greater hunger in response. Many of those who seek to follow a Stoic or Buddhist mindset also don't read into how both expressed not extreme asceticism but a life of balance, to avoid being consumed by the fires of passion in excess. Also, it takes a great developed sense of self awareness and selflessness to know when to let go of obsession and to break free of bad habits, or at least make sure they are less frequent.
Ascetic practices are pretty core to the Stoic and (most) Buddhist lifestyles, particularly the latter's more monastic focuses. While there is eventually some exception to both and Stoics do tend to lean into Moderation a bit more admittedly, the both of them are so popular initially due to their embrace of asceticism.

While self-mortification is renown for its ability to generate supposed special powers and I'm totally on board with that, I don't like this whole one or the other business. Playing with the Middle is where all the fun is.

As for the rest of the post, try not to be demoralized. Things are getting harder for good reasons. This is your opportunity to harden yourself. Let it be a test if you really need to. Find some limits, make some investments, learn a practical skill or two, and it'll all blow over soon (and more, most likely).
 
Well one for sure wish that web changed things (before TINC) than what it changed (idpol)...
(and tptb mantaining status quo; if that wasnt obvious...)
 
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The Chibi One

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Man, everyone clowned on this guy before I had the chance. My smooth brain is sad indeed.

The discourse of stored information as equal to intelligence has a faulty basis. While "crystallised intelligence" has often been discussed, hoarding sets of data (seriously, those new gurus of fintech keep talking in such ridiculous terms) accounts for nothing if you lack the nous to articulate and see the relations between data and coming up with potential solutions etc. etc.

An equivalent would be that people confuse having a lot of data stored in your computer's HDD as equal to its computing power. And as Punp mentioned, most "knowledge" imparted nowadays is ephemeral, signifying nothing of importance.

Terminally online autists will tell you the 10-hour video essay on FNAF lore they watched is better than normalfaggots obsessing over football or white girls yapping about designer shoes.

The intelligent thing is to laugh to their face and call all of them cringefaggots.
 
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punishedgnome

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Bro, I am in my 40s, I have two degrees and I've worked everywhere from fast food, to education to IT over the years. I've met and worked with a lot of people across a wide variety of education levels and lifestyles. Something like a third of people are just fucking stupid because they have a shitty brain that's addled with various disorders that decrease their executive function and other things that decrease their adult IQ like FASD and malnutrition as a child. I don't know what to tell you. It's not because they want. They're not capable of learning because their brain is fucked.
 
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astralita

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Bro, I am in my 40s, I have two degrees and I've worked everywhere from fast food, to education to IT over the years. I've met and worked with a lot of people across a wide variety of education levels and lifestyles. Something like a third of people are just fucking stupid because they have a shitty brain that's addled with various disorders that decrease their executive function and other things that decrease their adult IQ like FASD and malnutrition as a child. I don't know what to tell you. It's not because they want. They're not capable of learning because their brain is fucked.
I think they are capable of learning a little more, but they need adequate approaches/methods to meet their needs and the content to be learned. And educational institutions, worldwide, are waaay behind in implementing these alternatives to the traditional ways of teaching/learning. In our social imaginary we still equate reading to learning, case in point the op.
Edit to greet @SirManison , a fellow argie. We are kinda arrogant down here.
 

Halico

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Think about it.
Just for a second.
In medieval times, learning was a privilege of nobles and wealthy families, and even they weren´t able to access to certain specific books kept in monasteries under the hands of jealous monks.
Later on, with the invention of the printing press by Johannes Gutenberg, the knowledge and sapience became more accessible to a rising bourgeois class, who boosted movements like the Renaissance and the Enlightenment, and contributed to humanity´s development.
Nowadays, our access to information, and therefore, to knowledge and sapience, is in the palm of our hand. In our very fingers lies the biggest library of the history of humanity: our phones. All the knowledge that all people throughout the ages have brought to others is free. And we don´t use it.
In an era where being intelligent is practically free, it´s our fault to be dumb.
Start to read and you will see how your life will improve.
Not fiction, but psychology books, philosophy books, economy books, among others. Books that will change your perspective of the world. Books that are worth to read.
One place where you can find knowledge.
Another place where you can find knowledge.
It's not a lack of resources, it's an overabundance of them.
A dude once said we used to do great things when it was harder to see boobs, and he was right.
One might have the entire knowledge of the human race in his hand, but also a brain that has been abused by every kind of over stimulation along the years, no incentive to really learn anything besides the temporally required knowledge to advance in the education system and also the rushed lifestyle of many cities doesn't let time or energy left for many to even take up an interest in something to learn.
 
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cone

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It's not a lack of resources, it's an overabundance of them.
A dude once said we used to do great things when it was harder to see boobs, and he was right.
One might have the entire knowledge of the human race in his hand, but also a brain that has been abused by every kind of over stimulation along the years, no incentive to really learn anything besides the temporally required knowledge to advance in the education system and also the rushed lifestyle of many cities doesn't let time or energy left for many to even take up an interest in something to learn.
mythologizing the struggle in this way is dumb imo. the motivation and discipline to study and learn something new mostly comes from within and is intrinsic - justifying its absence as a consequence of being able to easily see boobs or youtube vids rings hollow to me. i taught myself html from tutorials online as a kid; it didn't help me advance in school, it didn't help me see boobs or achieve anything online, it was just for fun and only possible because of the abundance of free information available to me via unfettered internet access.

Re: the OP, I strongly agree. Lack of agency is at the heart of this.
 
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Punp

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mythologizing the struggle in this way is dumb imo. the motivation and discipline to study and learn something new mostly comes from within and is intrinsic - justifying its absence as a consequence of being able to easily see boobs or youtube vids rings hollow to me. i taught myself html from tutorials online as a kid; it didn't help me advance in school, it didn't help me see boobs or achieve anything online, it was just for fun and only possible because of the abundance of free information available to me via unfettered internet access.

Re: the OP, I strongly agree. Lack of agency is at the heart of this.
Imagine what you could've achieved without a global market providing you with an abundance of new varieties of fruit.
 
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Ian Moone

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To be clearer, it's a saturated choice array in conjunction with overbearing, generic influence techniques which are designed to first fatigue you so your inhibition is lowered (a la choice array saturation) and then keep you on the drip of some rhythmed influence campaign. Sure, it's funny to assert being able to wear too many clothes to school is keeping kids from learning to code or finding their own reasons to be inspired to advance in life, but we're talking about specific choice parameters, not, what choices of fruit are available on the other side of the country in a supermarket you've never been to.

The real trouble here is actually a lack of want - specifically a want of Knowledge, as I pointed out before. Just as cone highlights for us, the only real ground you cover is the ground you walk yourself. You can't sit around and expect someone to deliver a box of inspiration to your front door one day, surprising you. It's an internal force you bring from the inner to the outer consciously. You have to want to exceed limits in an effort to gain understanding. I think some of us have spoken about the degree of Engagement elsewhere in the forums being a primary driver of affiliation with other people intellectually. At least, that was my assertion. I maintain that here: this Engagement is predicated on the degree of inclination someone has toward a given pursuit. Like before, no one can grant them that; the influence they muster themselves directly influences their level of Engagement and that maintained Engagement is a focused pursuit. Should that be directed toward Knowledge, people might not be so dumb.

For want of knowledge, my people are lost.
People that don't engage don't want - a lack of Passion.
 

Punp

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To be clearer, it's a saturated choice array in conjunction with overbearing, generic influence techniques which are designed to first fatigue you so your inhibition is lowered (a la choice array saturation) and then keep you on the drip of some rhythmed influence campaign. Sure, it's funny to assert being able to wear too many clothes to school is keeping kids from learning to code or finding their own reasons to be inspired to advance in life, but we're talking about specific choice parameters, not, what choices of fruit are available on the other side of the country in a supermarket you've never been to.

The real trouble here is actually a lack of want - specifically a want of Knowledge, as I pointed out before. Just as cone highlights for us, the only real ground you cover is the ground you walk yourself. You can't sit around and expect someone to deliver a box of inspiration to your front door one day, surprising you. It's an internal force you bring from the inner to the outer consciously. You have to want to exceed limits in an effort to gain understanding. I think some of us have spoken about the degree of Engagement elsewhere in the forums being a primary driver of affiliation with other people intellectually. At least, that was my assertion. I maintain that here: this Engagement is predicated on the degree of inclination someone has toward a given pursuit. Like before, no one can grant them that; the influence they muster themselves directly influences their level of Engagement and that maintained Engagement is a focused pursuit. Should that be directed toward Knowledge, people might not be so dumb.


People that don't engage don't want - a lack of Passion.
Perhaps I should explain - Cone's special interest is fruit. My comment is a glib remark reflecting that the desire for seeing breasts is not unique to seeing breasts, and the abundance of satisfactions to wants, distractions and goals of the individual are unique to the person.

To put it another way: not all boobs are boobs.
 
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Ian Moone

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Perhaps I should explain - Cone's special interest is fruit. My comment is a glib remark reflecting that the desire for seeing breasts is not unique to seeing breasts, and the abundance of satisfactions to wants, distractions and goals of the individual are unique to the person.

To put it another way: not all boobs are boobs.
The reason the reference is potent is because it deals with the synthesis of a specific set of hormones, which is a bit more important to this conversation than you seem to let on. Unfortunately, your reduction to "it's just another fleeting satisfaction" is pretty off the mark for these neurological reasons. In fact, this is exactly why the Libido Dominandi agenda is so prolific and effective.

Otherwise, I understand and appreciate the parallels you're making. I suppose this is just me being pedantic at this point.
 

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mythologizing the struggle in this way is dumb imo. the motivation and discipline to study and learn something new mostly comes from within and is intrinsic - justifying its absence as a consequence of being able to easily see boobs or youtube vids rings hollow to me. i taught myself html from tutorials online as a kid; it didn't help me advance in school, it didn't help me see boobs or achieve anything online, it was just for fun and only possible because of the abundance of free information available to me via unfettered internet access.

Re: the OP, I strongly agree. Lack of agency is at the heart of this.
I understand you because I'm like that too, but you have to recognize that not all people display this internal drive to learn (because this drive is always present, is part of how human cognition works), and that is a problem way beyond the individual level, it's a social problem that was always present, but mutates through time. 30 years ago people would have blamed futbol. So, the question is, why are certain populations displaying this lack of agency towards their education? You mentioned motivation, which is an affective factor, so what is happening around these people that impacts so much in their intrapersonal world?

The real trouble here is actually a lack of want - specifically a want of Knowledge, as I pointed out before. Just as cone highlights for us, the only real ground you cover is the ground you walk yourself. You can't sit around and expect someone to deliver a box of inspiration to your front door one day, surprising you. It's an internal force you bring from the inner to the outer consciously. You have to want to exceed limits in an effort to gain understanding. I think some of us have spoken about the degree of Engagement elsewhere in the forums being a primary driver of affiliation with other people intellectually. At least, that was my assertion. I maintain that here: this Engagement is predicated on the degree of inclination someone has toward a given pursuit. Like before, no one can grant them that; the influence they muster themselves directly influences their level of Engagement and that maintained Engagement is a focused pursuit. Should that be directed toward Knowledge, people might not be so dumb.
If we can equate lack of want to internal drive to learn, then is not that it doesn't exist in such people. Multiple social factors that translate into individual factors are (and were) interfering in the manifestation of said want/drive. It's not that easy like them plebs we patricians. Also, what is dumb vs what is intelligent? an indigenous person might not be able to read and write, but certainly is more aware of their surroundings and how to manipulate them in their favour. That is valuable and more useful knowledge than whatever you and I might know.