Your vision of hell and heaven

[asderfly]

I can't be fully certain but pretty sure this stuff is very subjective. the old concepts of hell = fiery pits of monsters and heaven = literal sky with angels and God's light feel kind of old and tailored to some sort of more traditional/primitive mind that is much less spread now. again, maybe I'm the weird one for thinking this way, but they feel sort of... shallow? I think a lot about the different routes afterlife may take if it's even real, I'm always in doubt.
So, how do you imagine heaven or hell? if somebody here has their own vision of hell and heaven itself or some sort of other division, or the sins and virtues, feel free to share.

 

[Lamoa]

I'm not a believer, so I can't answer your question to well. We will likely go to a "heaven" or a "hell" depending on what our mind construct when we finally die. And that will depends on how you content you've lived your life and overall how you feel once you're on your deathbed. "Hell" will just be something created if you're heavily tormented by something: Extreme regret, etc.

In the case that there does actually exist a heaven and hell, I do not think that hell exists. We are much beneath any superior being. Their morality an ability to understand will be far superior than what we have. Our transgressions are quite insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
How can a creator punish its own creation? An omnipotent being cannot put blame on a creation that he had complete control over. Unless the hypothetical superior being is evil, I do not see the existance of hell possible. The morality and thought process of a being like that has to be so above us that we simply cannot comprehend it.

With religious friends I've talked to, the description they give for heaven is basically a state of pure plreasure and fulfillment. They don't say that there's an actual place called heaven, you simply just feel it. Your soul connects with everyone else in the afterlife for eternity.

 

[kodeb8]

I don't believe in a heaven or hell, but I do like to learn about theology, so... Many theologians believe the stereotypical depiction of hell being a fiery pit where sinners go to when they die isn't accurate. Hell is really meant to represent a separation from God, a sort of existence without love, goodness or hope. An example could be someone who is chronically addicted to gambling. That person is "living in hell" because his existence is hollow and only defined by short term pleasure.

 

[internet_userr1]

I used to be a believer in Islam.
I often imagined hell as a dark place at first, with 3 separate fires. God would be beside you, and then he would condemn you to whichever fire you deserved. The first was a smaller fire, the least painful. The next was a middle fire, and the last was large, the most painful. When I was 7, one of my friends had told me that Allah would cut my tongue off in hell which scared me to bits, so I also quite often imagined God grabbing my tongue and cutting it off with scissors or something.
Anyways, inside the fires, there were levels depending on which one you were thrown in, but they all had similarities. It was a dark, grey land. The trees were spinal and all you could see for miles was fire. Whatever the sin was that you committed, for example, if you committed murder, you would repeat that action over and over again to yourself.. if that makes sense. If you killed someone. you'll have to spend all of eternity stabbing yourself in a constant loop that never ends, fully conscious off the pain with nothing you can do. If you had sex before marriage, you'd spend all of eternity doing intimate things with unmarried men. If you stole something, you'd spend the rest of eternity losing your things- and this go as far as to losing your clothes, your hair. your eyes, your limbs, anything. All the while, you will be consumed by a constant fire.

As for heaven, I imagined it as a safer haven, sort of like a large Island. I could wish for whatever I wanted. I imagined a waterfall gliding down mountains and lots of people there wearing white and talking. I imagined that the angels would come down often to talk to us, and we would have interesting conversations. The way heaven works in Islam, you can ask for anything, and whatever you ask for will be granted to you. When I was a kid I often imagined that I would wish for lots of ice cream and food, which I now realize is stupid because you wouldn't have to eat in heaven. I also heard somewhere that when you entered heaven, you'd automatically start speaking Arabic, everyone, and all communication will be understood. But in a way, I also thought it boring.
I thought about whether or not my biggest enemies would be there, and I wondered how I could ever stay nice to them when we hated each other so long ago? I thought that everyone acting nice and peaceful in heaven was sort of an act, just so that they could please God and live a safer life away from the fires. Because even if you sinned 40% of the time but practiced good deeds 60%, you'd still go to heaven as per how I was taught, so who's to say that those people who sinned 40% of the time wouldn't crack a risky joke here or there or do something wrong at some point? I was told that heaven was meant to be a safe place with complete and total free will, as opposed to hell with zero free will, but now I realize that the only way to keep a shit ton of humans in one place without them "sinning" even once is to do the exact opposite. It's to take away all feelings that would create "sin." Rage, jealously, hatred, lust, greed whatever. But by taking these feelings away... that isn't truly "free will." Humans are not perfect creatures and are bound to sin at least once in a human lifetime. Imagine trying not to sin in a lifetime that NEVER ends, that runs for all eternity, one that you cannot even die from, you just have to live, forever. Sometimes, heaven seemed scarier than hell.

 

[RisingThumb]

So, how do you imagine heaven or hell? if somebody here has their own vision of hell and heaven itself or some sort of other division, or the sins and virtues, feel free to share.

Have you heard of Dante's Divine Comedy by chance?

Anyways, I believe there will be divine judgement for people for their actions and transgressions against others. What form it takes is up to the divine. Some people will call it Karmic Justice that people get what they mete out. Perhaps it's a Darwinian justice, that the weak and cowardly(not to confuse weakness with meekness), or the strong and selfish will find themselves in an early grave at the end of their genetic lineage(or at late grave with no family in sight). Perhaps it's judgement in the afterlife. I do believe in divine judgement, but if you corner me down I'll give you a non-committal answer on how it will happen.

I will also share a thought for you. The concept of hell is for those so engulfed in sin to engorge themselves in absolute glut of that sin. It is not out of character for God's omnibenevolence, even though the sin is death by a thousand paper cuts. God gives you plenty of time to decide between sin or him, and if you choose sin, he gives you what you desire. I think the one thing missing in Dante's Inferno, is that the punishment is the highest form of pleasure for the sinner in the same depraved way that pleasure and pain mix in BDSM. All of the victims in the inferno, have the best outcome for their lives from their perspective of life, just the same way as those who do the will of God on Earth have their desires in God. At least that's how I reason out the idea of hell or eternal damnation in Christianity.

 

[Rollingstart]

I imagine heaven as vaporwave paradise for fun, but I believe it will be infinitely greater than anything I could possibly imagine.

Hell, I'm not sure. I tend to take the more Eastern Christian approach and see heaven and hell both as the same place. I think after death nothing will separate us from God's love, but for an unrepent sinner, that love will burn, the same way someone who lives in the dark will be blinded by the Sun. Hell will probably be something like people eternally turning away from that light, trying to find a place of darkness but finding no where.

 

[幽邃森林]

The depiction of fiery pits for hell and vibrant green pastures in the clouds as heaven is actually reminiscent of the Greek underworld (and maybe other ancient religions).

For Christianity, heaven and hell are not places but different states of existence. To make this foreign concept more palatable to the ancient pagans, Greek ideas of heaven, hell, angels, etc. would be used to illustrate the afterlife and I guess the idea stuck.

As for who hell, I agree with @kodeb8 and @Lamoa. It's a state of existence and I can't see that God, who is the ultimate benevolent force, would condemn people to hell. Rather, I think humans, an animal with their own free will, will find their path to wherever or whatever is hell, or to a state of existence with God.

 

[asderfly]

With religious friends I've talked to, the description they give for heaven is basically a state of pure plreasure and fulfillment.

one problem I've always had with the idea of infinite pleasure is that it would corrupt the soul/mind, to put it simply have the same effect as how the mind of a person who only indulges in pleasure inevitably decays and only desires more pleasure.

 

[Lamoa]

one problem I've always had with the idea of infinite pleasure is that it would corrupt the soul/mind, to put it simply have the same effect as how the mind of a person who only indulges in pleasure inevitably decays and only desires more pleasure.

You're thinking of the wrong type of pleasure. This is more like pure satisfaction and fulfillment. It's a spiritual type of pleasure, not the dopaminic pleasures that you're imagining. It's a state of complete peacefulness and hapiness.

 

[asderfly]

the punishment is the highest form of pleasure for the sinner

I actually got this idea once when I saw an orgy scene in a certain movie, and it just struck me, "that's what the hell of lust looks like".
it would appear like hell to the virtuous.
unfortunately I wasn't able to develop this idea much further, like if we take the seven deadly sins, it's fairly easy to imagine something for wrath, gluttony and lust, perhaps also sloth and pride... but greed and envy?

speaking of the Divine Comedy, the purgatory that it described was the closest I've ever seen to my own idea of heaven, as a place where the soul can perfect itself, and try to get rid of the roots of sin in it (though it's been some time since I read it and I'm not sure it's 100% accurate).

 

[vulonkaaz]

high frequency and low frequency idk any more cause I don't remember going there

---

we don't stay there forever there is no place where we stay forever we were somewhere before being on Earth we will be somewhere else after we can come back here just as someone else

---

i *think* things move way faster in high frequency worlds than in low frequency ones idk tho

 

[asderfly]

high frequency and low frequency idk any more cause I don't remember going there

---

we don't stay there forever there is no place where we stay forever we were somewhere before being on Earth we will be somewhere else after we can come back here just as someone else

---

i *think* things move way faster in high frequency worlds than in low frequency ones idk tho

not sure I fully understand but what you're describing sounds like reincarnation? like the more/less time you have to wait before reincarnating?

 

[vulonkaaz]

not sure I fully understand but what you're describing sounds like reincarnation? like the more/less time you have to wait before reincarnating?

you don't "wait" to get reincarnated you just do whatever there are infinite things to do in the universe

 

[Andy Kaufman]

For Christianity, heaven and hell are not places but different states of existence.

What Christianity and when? I think depending on the denomnation, time and place Christian Hell is also more of a palce thana sate of existence. I could imagine the first Jews who converted to Christianity still believed in Hell like it was presented as Sheol in the old testament. Jesus also spoke of eternal fire in Matthew and the Book of revelation mentions a Lake of Fire.
The ideas for Hell as a place are already there so I don't think it's just a conversion/translation error that some Christians did and do believe heaven and hell to be places.

I'm no expert on this but I do know that there's few cohesive, mutually agreed upon concepts among Christians and Hell is one of them so I woulnd't agree that it's 100% either or in Christianity, nor that it was 100% originally ONE thing and one thing only, especially considering the origins.

 

[youtherthyf]

i lean towards the concept of hell and heaven as sheik rumi and ibn arabi presented them. states of true ego death(heaven) and "separation"(a.k.a hell)

for rumi and ibn arabi god is the original source, kinda like the one in platonic philosophy, it is the only thing that has TRUE existence while our own and the world's existence is only derivative, the idea of being "separate" or possess a separate existence next to god is a falsehood created by the ego(nafs) who is the source of all suffering and sin. in those ideas heaven is a realization of unity through ego death, heaven is "infinite pleasure" cuz our source of suffering, the ego, is dead. meanwhile in hell, you retain your egoist state but sense you are now more aware of the other world, it burns and hurts to be separate from it. i think eastren orthadoxy shares a similar concept if i am not mistaken. they didn't fully deny a traditional heaven or hell existing, but they would be yet another manefstations of the divine attributes that the mind experience(merci for heaven and anger for hell)

i would also like to add i don't believe in hell being eternal, for most people at least, again thanks to ibn arabi and rumi's views. in their ideas heaven is a manafestation of divine merci/love(which is a perminent divine attribute in islam) while hell is a manefstation of anger(which is a non-perminent reactionary attribute). manefstations of the temporary fade away after god stops being angry but love stays forever.

The way heaven works in Islam, you can ask for anything, and whatever you ask for will be granted to you. When I was a kid I often imagined that I would wish for lots of ice cream and food

super based wish.
i was having this convo with a buddy in 3rd-ish grade about what we would wish for and he said he wanted the omnitrex(ben10) and i said i wanted to meet aliens.

 

[ĦĦĦ]

i'm not going to write much but i don't like heaven, it feels hedonistic and you just continue living just in a different realm. you're allowed to do the stuff you'd be able to do on Earth, but because you did the "good stuff" you get to do all the things you want without consequence. for an after-life, i'd like to return to nothing, ceasing to exist. it would be nice

 

[TheMountainsofMadness]

All things considered, I suspect that the hell used as the setting for hazbin hotel and helluva boss is probably spot on in that it simply throws everyone judged to be evil into an isolated place and allows them to do whatever they want. Because they're so caught up in their own greed/lust/pride/whatever they continue to give in to their obsession and damn the consequences. All in the same place as each other, all with the same degree of freedom as each other, and all affecting each other. Sometimes they find someone they care about for whatever reason or degree of caring, but because they're all caught up in their own dark urges they bring harm. The gate's unlocked and your only jailer is your true conscience, that knows whether you deserve to leave. Any and all torment is the logical result of your own actions, and when you finally realize the truth of the situation and genuinely change you are freed to ascend. Might take a week, might take unknowable epochs, but eternity is a fairly long while.
Heaven's pretty much the same, only because your desires aren't judged as evil there really isn't torment. You just do whatever you want, and the logical result occurs.

 

[幽邃森林]

What Christianity and when? I think depending on the denomnation, time and place Christian Hell is also more of a palce thana sate of existence. .

Good question. I should have replaced "Christianity" with "Catholicism", though I remember some other major denominations teaching that heaven and hell should be seen as a state of existence. That's the most common description or heaven I've personally encountered. Of course you'll get unique cosmologies like that in Mormonism.

 

[silkdealer]

a very religious friend told me that in hell you have to stand there as your brain melts and experience every second of it. then when its melted it regenerates and you experience it again and again and again and again and again.

hell is not a nice place.

 

[Andraserapis]

I had a strange dream once of something hell-like. I'll describe what it was like here:

It was very much like our world; the actual 'setting' was no different. There were cities, forests, mountains, beautiful springs. What was firstly different were the perceptions, the forms, the feeling. Nothing could provoke any intuitive understanding of beauty. A rotting corpse, a shimmering waterfall provoked no differing emotional response. Artists did not exist. Relationships, from parents-and-child to between-lovers, were bound by contracts both parties agreed upon. Kindness was never shown; not because people hated kindness, but because it never occurs to them as an option. Rarely, something 'alien' would be brought to this Hell. Something that could provoke beauty, something we have access to. The residents took it upon themselves to hoard these things, keep it to themselves, in fear that it would be destroyed. All beautiful, alien things were destroyed. No agency or organization enforced this, it was simply the will of the general public; if it could not be shared with all, it was accepted to destroy the beauty of others.

Secondly, no one held any unconscious associations with anything. Because of this, it was constantly obvious that all things were 'matter,' that they were 'made of the same stuff.' At dinner, if your mind wandered, it would be easy to mistake your steak for your brother's arm. You'd realize in an instant once you've made the mistake, but it was easy to do regardless. Parties were sickening; so many people crowded together, so many mouths, walls, fingers, arms, shouts, doors, holes, eyes. It was disorienting. The music sounds eerily similar to the cacophonous screams. The writhing crowd looks eerily close to the filthy walls. It makes you sick having to experience such stimulus it for so long, but substances made it easier.

Thirdly, the calculations. Everyone was constantly reading and talking about 'the calculations.' They were scientific portents about their own lives, the people they know, the government, the weather. Everything was subject to them. The time you died, the time your friends died, everyone knew pretty accurately, and everyone was beholden to them. It was a given that the calculations worked. Wars were calculated hundreds of years in advanced. So were migrations, recessions, genocides; but also economic flourishing, warm weather, bountiful yields. The calculations were always changing, and also in dispute. People argued over 0.1% differences in them. It was the reason for all strife and conflict in daily life, practically. If you wanted to know if your partner was cheating on you, you'd get it calculated.

Is this any place you'll go to when you die? No. But neither is the Christian Hell. Hope I stimulated your imaginations