The Education of Atlantean Priests - Waldorf School and Rudolf Steiner

[Vitnira]

I've done reading on Waldorf education since it's a fascinating way to school children. One of its major advantages is that it actually gives children focused attention and growth, and nurtures them to express themselves creatively. It also encourages them to have practical creative skills like "handcraft" (sewing, balling yarn), attentive focus on completing a project, physical dance, and various arts. This is all of what is told to parents that enroll their children in Waldorf schools (and it is true). To me another benefit is a focus on teaching mythology and folk tales, especially Germanic, and what the stories mean.

But Waldorf school has many other ideas associated with it that are hard to explain. Waldorf educaton's founder, Rudolf Steiner, also created the 'religion' of Anthroposophy. This asserts that higher planes, deities, spirits all exist if one nurtures the clairvoyance required to see them, and Waldorf school aims to nurture this ability in children. Sounds pretty cool to me! But... it also has some very strange quotes I encountered right at the beginning of one of his more notable books, "How to Know Higher Worlds":

If you have ever stood before the door of someone you revered, filled with holy awe as you turned the doorknob to enter for the first time a room that was a "holy place" for you, then the feeling you experienced at that moment is the seed that can later blossom into your becoming a student in an occult, esoteric school. To be gifted with the potential for such feelings is a blessing for every young person. We should not fear that such feelings of reverence lead to subservience and slavery; on the contrary, a child's reverence for others develops into a reverence for truth and knowledge. Experience teaches that we know best how to hold our heads high in freedom if we have learned to feel reverence when it is appropriate—and it is appropriate whenever it flows from the depths of the heart.
...
Our civilization is more inclined to criticize, judge, and condemn than to feel devotion and selfless veneration. Our children criticize far more than they respect or revere. But just as surely as every feeling of devotion and reverence nurtures the soul's powers for higher knowledge, so every act of criticism and judgment drives these powers away.

Definitely the sort of thing I'd write if I was trying to start a cult. And Waldorf school definitely infuses the nurturing of "having devotional reverence for leaders", especially towards teachers and principals.

I thought this article was a great overview of Waldorf. It's a critical view that provides insight into what is taught:
I went to Waldorf

The article is long but before discussion here I'd highly recommend at least skimming it. If you really can't be bothered to do that I'll provide some key quotes:

Arriving at the school each day was like entering a refuge from worldly turmoil. The morning began with a prayer, although no one called it that — we called it a "morning verse." In the lower grades, after reciting the "verse," we had classes about myths and Bible stories (Steiner believed myths are true clairvoyant reports of the spirit world, whereas the Bible is almost true, needing to be reinterpreted in light of his own teachings). Interspersed with these supernatural lessons, there were classes in math and geography and history: regular subjects, although they were trimmed and modulated in ways we did not understand. We had no textbooks — we copied lessons written on the chalkboards for us by our teachers. The school's library was small — only the Waldorf worldview, and texts that might seem to confirm it, were available to us. Reading was not emphasized or, indeed, taught in the lower grades. We had no "Weekly Reader," no "Dick and Jane." Nor were modern teaching aids used, things such as movies; there was something repugnant, even evil, about them, although we were not told what.

The teachers urged us to imaginatively identify with whatever we studied or saw — to feel the life-force coursing through a tree, or absorb an eagle's noble spirit, or experience the meaning of a boulder.

Christ was important at Waldorf, but He was Christ as reinvisioned by Rudolf Steiner. He was not the Son of God worshipped in Christian churches; He was the Sun God, the same god known in other traditions by such names as Ra, Apollo, and Baldr. [21] We not told this, directly. We had to absorb the "truth" from the misty atmosphere of the school — or wait to absorb it later in life, or in a later incarnation. Anthroposophists are patient.

[Our headmaster,] Mr. Gardner laid out for us the overarching structure of the family of man. He explained that the various races stood at different levels of moral development — each was forging its own destiny. He said these things sympathetically, with no hint of condescension. Yet the vibe was in the room that morning: The terms he used were more metaphysical than biological. The oriental races, he said, are ancient, wise, but vitiated. The African races are youthful, unformed, childlike, he said. Standing near the center of humanity's family are the currently most advanced races, the whites, he said. He was giving us a modified version of Steiner's views.

My class's homeroom teacher during the elementary grades was Carol Hemingway Gardner, John Gardner's wife. She was a tender, motherly woman — I think every kid in the class loved her. I was sorry to think of her following her husband into disgraced retreat. I still remember her fondly, although I now realize that she — in the gentlest manner possible, and I'm sure with pure motives — began my introduction to the mythic/religious visions of Anthroposophy. The class history printed in our 1964 yearbook includes the following:

"In the third grade we began our study of the Bible, and put on a play about Joseph's coat of many colors ... Besides the three R's, the fourth grade was occupied with the study of Norse myths. The high point of the year was the building of Yggdrasil, the Norse tree of life, out of paper. The fifth grade, where we learned about Greek and Egyptian myths, was our last with Mrs. Gardner."

For Steiner and his followers, the truest thinking is not rational cognition or brainwork, which they deem dry and un-heartfelt. The form of "thinking" Steiner advocated is more akin to emotion than to cool, rational conceptualizing, and it often leads to complication or even mystification rather than to clarity. Ask yourself whether this is what you want for your children. Steiner taught that we must regain our ancient powers of clairvoyance, raising them to new, higher levels of spiritual insight. We must open outwards through "imagination," which Steiner taught is form of clairvoyance. According to Steiner:

"Essentially, people today have no inkling of how people looked out into the universe in ancient times when human beings still possessed an instinctive clairvoyance ... If we want to be fully human, however, we must struggle to regain a view of the cosmos that moves toward Imagination again...." [12]

We must return to clairvoyance, which is imagination. On this path, intellect and the brain are mere way stations; our true goal is to transcend them, reaching new, higher or "exact" forms of clairvoyance. As Steiner said on another occasion:

"I have described...how the intellectual is further developed into conscious, exact clairvoyance ... Through such a higher consciousness — imaginative, inspired and intuitive consciousness — man may reach in self-knowledge beyond his intellect and know himself as part of the supersensible [i.e., supernatural] world ." [13]

As for the intellect, we must leave it behind (once we have used it in our quest to become exactly clairvoyant) .

"The intellect destroys or hinders." [14]

As for the brain itself, it has little if any value (except to the extent that it enables our brief visit to intellect on our path to exact clairvoyance).

"[T]he brain and nerve system have nothing at all to do with actual cognition." [15]

Personally I don't think I'd send my children to a Waldorf school. There are certainly some ideas in there that are gems I'll lift for my homeschool curriculum, but the school as it stands sounds veryyyy culty. To me this feels like the kind of schooling Atlanteans would do for their priests (ensuring they're still subservient to kings and gods). Steiner claimed to have gotten his ideas from clairvoyance of the higher realms.

So folks, what do you think of Steiner? Waldorf school? Do you think he actually tapped into a higher realm to acquire knowledge of spirital pedagogy? Do you think he's a nutcase cult leader? Would you send your kids to a Waldorf school if one was available?

 

[Vitnira]

Steiner was trying to restore the teachings of the Pagan Mystery schools, since they have been destroyed in the massacre of our ancestors by the christians from the 4th century onward (aka: the Dark Ages). There was nothing cultish about it, it was organic, and he was assassinated by those who have sought to prevent anything like this from being restored. Look around you in the current times, who is it that screeches the loudest about the dangers of a return of Paganism? The jews.

I've read overviews of Mystery traditions, the Masonic rituals (which is jewy corruption of mystery traditions) and none of them have any hints of "needing to give devotion". If any mystery tradition was going to have slavenly devotion I'd expect the Jewish Masonic rituals to have it, but they don't. There's some reference to praying and trusting in Deity? Here's a quote from the Masonic Entered Apprentice ritual:

Q: What were you then told?
A: That as Masons we are taught never to enter upon any great or important undertaking without first invoking the blessing of Deity, I was therefore then conducted to a place near the center of the lodge-room and caused to kneel for the benefit of prayer.

Q: After prayer, what were you asked?
A: "In all the great trials, troubles and difficulties thru life", In whom I place my trust: my answer being " in God", I was told since in God was my trust, my faith was well founded; was taken by the right hand, ordered to arise, follow my conductor, and fear no danger.

Hindus are accepted within Masonry since "God/Deity" applies to more of a Brahmic figure. This Jewy crap is less "slavey" than Waldorf.

My point in all this is that Waldorf schools are uniquely culty with their focus on devotion to authority. The quote I have in the original post from his book, plus quotes in the article about not writing essays and spending formative years "copying words written by teachers on chalkboards verbatim". Or this (emphasis mine):

By the time we reached the upper grades, our spiritual conditioning was fairly well advanced and the curriculum became somewhat more conventional. We had a few textbooks now — although sometimes these were simple collections of primary texts: historical documents from US history, for instance, with little editorial commentary. Our teachers told us what to make of the texts.

And the teachers are brainwashed themselves:

Several teachers and staff at the school — including the headmaster, the former headmaster, and the high school principal — accepted his story and began deferring to him as a clairvoyant sage. As a result, they ceded control of the school to the young man and his "spiritual contacts." The bewitched teachers sought supernatural guidance from the young seer in matters large and small, ranging from curricular issues to deciding what records could be played at school dances.

It's almost like a less stupid version of Wicca. Pagan ideas + cult mentality.

 

[Vitnira]

You need to take into account the fact that his goal was to ease a heavily christianized population out of an intensely devotional indoctrination, he could not shock them with something too alien to what they were used to. He was not allowed to complete Anthroposophy or rebuild a Western esoteric tradition, so all the necessary transitional stages are absent. You're judging an effort that was only half formed, and having read overviews is not an educated position where these teachings are concerned.

Masonry is a Christianized mystery tradition that doesn't require cultlike devotion and has been perfectly acceptable to Christians for centuries.

The leaders at Waldorf schools are actively using this half-formed effort and pushing authoritarian beliefs, which are the opposite of pagan ideology. Pagans do not brainwash children to devote themselves to a higher power. They earn their authority by being glorious and others naturally follow.

My statement on "overviews" was with respect to traditional mystery schools because we have no concrete records of them, we can only read other texts referring to traditions like Mithras and Eleusis and draw conclusions. I've read a fair amount on Waldorf/Steiner at this point since like I said, I will be infusing my homeschool curriculum with pagan values.

I overall have quite positive views of Steiner but ignoring the cultlike mentality he imposes is delusional.

 

[no_chill]

The idea of this schooling was in a sense built upon into the Montessori Schools.

Which are very popular schools here, and very often doctors advise the parents of kids who are displaying talent in certain fields early on to put them there, because they might end up becoming troublemakers in public schools that can not handle them or satisfy their needs.

Those Waldorf schools might be the closest to an initiatic centre you could get however. I wouldn't be too harsh on them. There is nothing like them that actually teaches the old values and traditions here.

he could not shock them with something too alien to what they were used to. He was not allowed to complete Anthroposophy or rebuild a Western esoteric tradition, so all the necessary transitional stages are absent.

This. The idea behind this school and its operative function has to be finished and completed. Its not the 1900 anymore.

 

[Vitnira]

The idea of this schooling was in a sense built upon into the Montessori Schools.

Which are very popular schools here, and very often doctors advise the parents of kids who are displaying talent in certain fields early on to put them there, because they might end up becoming troublemakers in public schools that can not handle them or satisfy their needs.

Montessori is closely related and seems to be more widely adopted. In contrast to Waldorf it encourages physical play to learn mathematics and reading at young ages (Waldorf pushes off these until about 10-12yrs old), has no discussion of myth, and demands play be purely in a realistic space (discouraging "hero fighting dragon" play). And obviously no Anthroposophy bent. No cultishness from what I've read either.

Those Waldorf schools might be the closest to an initiatic centre you could get however. I wouldn't be too harsh on them. There is nothing like them that actually teaches the old values and traditions here.


This. The idea behind this school and its operative function has to be finished and completed. Its not the 1900 anymore.

I'm being critical for the purpose of discussion. I was wondering if someone would argue the devotion to authority was truly a good or spiritual thing. It seems that you both are in consensus that aspect is meant to be a Christian stepping stone.

I've been wondering if the Waldorf focus away from reading and mathematics at a young age is a bad thing. By our modern standards it seems like a bad thing, but we know the ancients didn't write anything down for quite a while and frowned on the practice. Steiner feels that children should be shielded from concrete reality (notice the focus on myth, play, art, and storytelling at the youngest ages) to keep their spiritual nature intact. We know that pagan children were traditionally drawn into homestead work at these ages, so this led to my thought that Steiner's education might be more aligned with priestly education. It's also why I noted the devotion to authority might be intentional: that the best priests will be devoted to a king and leave the concrete matters to the ruling caste.

If I were to continue Steiner's pedagogy, I'd sort children by their dharma and educate appropriately. Steiner hints toward this by instructing teachers to alter their style based on a child's temperament selected of the four temperaments.

Montessori is more appropriate for the priestly caste of our era - the materialist white collar workers. Complaints from former Waldorf students tend to be that they are poorly educated for the modern world (which would make sense if Steiner tapped into an Atlantean priestly education methodology). The pedagogy for a laborer is the current standard for education and is such a major cause of problems.

So what would be left is to identify what would be appropriate education for leaders (probably tutors like Alexander the Great - and whatever the elites are doing now) and combine these into a complete system. The challenge would be to sort people properly and not propagate the current system where leaders are chosen based purely on wealth and not leadership characteristics.

 

[lain is here]

I quite like Steiner, and I think there's quite a bit of insight tucked away in his massive body of writings. That said, I'm skeptical of most organizations, even those founded by people I respect, since eventually the original flame dies so to speak. So I understand your concern with Waldorf schools. Personally if I had kids, I'm not sure I would send them there either. Though at the appropriate age, I would like to eventually expose them to Steiner's thinking as well as to other esoteric teachers such as Gurdjieff

 

[Amadis]

Send your kids here and they are for sure getting touched. Nothing to say about the curriculum or matters of literacy and understanding of the world as we see it; Giving children a mythical view of the world and appointing the teachers as mystical beings who know all is a good way to harvest adrenochrome.
If you believe in the values of paganism and non-christian worldviews thats fine but theres probably better ways to go about teaching your kids than making them steiner's cumdumps. Should somebody really care about a child's education they should put in the effort to homeschool. If youre not equipped/knowledgeable enough to homeschool then put your kids up for adoption because youre letting the state raise them anyways.

 

[Lamp Fool]

I'm neither a parent nor a pagan, but I got to say that every two-bit pedagogue has some design to turn the kids under their control into whatever it is that they want. If you disagree with them whatsoever, they will immediately be tempted to use cunning and their classroom authority to overstep parental wishes, because in their eyes you are wrong and don't deserve to have the final say. I had my fill of pillorying, mind-games, and suggestion to turn against my own parents at public school, so I can only imagine what happens at Waldorf schools where the teachers are way more invested in their particular brand.

 

[Vitnira]

Send your kids here and they are for sure getting touched.

Citation needed. We live in a society that froths at the mouth to lynch pedos, and since Waldorf is typically antivax you have a majority of society that'd jump at demonizing Waldorf. The best I see as far as criticism is that it's a cult. If it was a pedo group we'd see articles on that.
I did find a case searching it up: Green Meadow Waldorf School

I'd like to see if the rate is higher than public/private schools before making that particular declaration.

Should somebody really care about a child's education they should put in the effort to homeschool. If youre not equipped/knowledgeable enough to homeschool then put your kids up for adoption because youre letting the state raise them anyways.

I agree but that's flat out infeasible for most of the population, and I think you'd like to have a society with humans in it, yes? Which begs the question, how can we mass educate children effectively without having some form of propaganda raise them? Waldorf seems to leave children ill-equipped for the world and hyperfixated on one man's incomplete belief structure so it's not a complete answer, and I don't know much about the outcomes of Montessori. I feel like they'd end up less creative.

A hybrid between the two leaning more on Montessori would be appropriate for most of the population.

 

[Vitnira]

I quite like Steiner, and I think there's quite a bit of insight tucked away in his massive body of writings. That said, I'm skeptical of most organizations, even those founded by people I respect, since eventually the original flame dies so to speak. So I understand your concern with Waldorf schools. Personally if I had kids, I'm not sure I would send them there either. Though at the appropriate age, I would like to eventually expose them to Steiner's thinking as well as to other esoteric teachers such as Gurdjieff

Yeah, I think you sum up my personal beliefs well. I don't have one near me anyway so it's moot.

It is certainly difficult to read through his writings because there's so much. At least he's more coherent than most occult authors, though maybe that's the work of the translators.

I wish I had the patience to learn German at a level I could read works like his. There's probably plenty lost in translation. I hear that American Waldorf schools are more nutty than the European varieties, I wonder if it's difference in how the books read.

 

[no_chill]

I was wondering if someone would argue the devotion to authority was truly a good or spiritual thing.

It is but not like this or christian authority or authority we have today. "You must do it like this because I say so." Or "You do it as told because I have an Bachelors degree". I don't know how to explain it. Evola said it like this "If you want to rule on the lower planes you must serve on the higher ones". So you receive it from an authority but it's nothing like we are used to today.

And yes our Mathematics is nothing like the greek intended to with it. They would shun the idea of using letters or non Eukledian Mathematics. For them Mathematics always was rooted in nature and always was something to "Calculate out". Not like today where we have thought concepts of Mathematics and different dimensions. If you would ask an ancient Greek person what comes between 2 and 4 he would say 3. If you ask this a person today they would say "well infinite amount of numbers". Greeks didn't even accepted the concept of comma numbers. And this is reflected in the thought patterns. An ancient Greek Person was in a state of being. We are in a state of becoming. They knew it all, we know that we never know it all. Some Greeks proudly proclaimed "Nothing existed before I was borns". And they didn't even had history. In their contracts they often state "Valid today until 100 years from now". But never bothered to write a start date or end date. For them this meant the contract is always valid. And so on.

And now we have shit like 72 Genders, non binary, "Trust the Science", "We are only meatsacks floating in space" etc.

 

[LostintheCycle]

If youre not equipped/knowledgeable enough to homeschool then put your kids up for adoption because youre letting the state raise them anyways.

How sheltered are you? You can't possibly have dumb opinions like this if you know anybody beyond your screen. Single-income families are rare and that is necessary to really do homeschooling.
As much as I despise the state of school and have talked about it many times on Agora, I don't think it's bad to put your children in school; most of my issues are with secondary and tertiary education anyway, primary schooling seems mostly fine. It's a necessity for the atomized families of today, for better or worse.
Now, regularly putting a <7y/o children into daycare or into before/after school care programs, is where I have a problem.

 

[Amadis]

Citation needed. We live in a society that froths at the mouth to lynch pedos, and since Waldorf is typically antivax you have a majority of society that'd jump at demonizing Waldorf. The best I see as far as criticism is that it's a cult.

No citation needed those lil niggas are getting fucking diddled. Society may be anti-pedo but it seems the people that lead society are very pro-pedo, especially in makeshift societies. This is just a hunch, kind of like when you dont wanna put your hand on a hot stove.

How sheltered are you? You can't possibly have dumb opinions like this if you know anybody beyond your screen. Single-income families are rare and that is necessary to really do homeschooling.

I just dont care about kid's education. I dont think anything worthwhile happens developmentally until a kid's first ayahuasca trip so you could really just tie them to a radiator till then. Afterwards you educate them on a healthy schedule of JRE and tiktok.

 

[LostintheCycle]

I dont think anything worthwhile happens developmentally until a kid's first ayahuasca trip so you could really just tie them to a radiator till then.

How sheltered are you? You can't possibly have dumb opinions like this if you know anybody beyond your screen.

 

[Antoine]

Never met a Waldorf student, but I know a guy who got homeschooled in line with the teachings of John Gatto and that seemed to work pretty well for him. These questions of schooling always come back to what you believe and want. If you believe Rudolf Steiner was actually correct about everything then a Waldorf School should be a no-brainer choice.