Lies that taught us in schools

[Eden]

School is just publicly funded daycare- it's all for show and any learning that happens is by accident. They don't even provide the social skills that are cited as a benefit of going to school versus being homeschooled.

I don't disagree, but I think this is a bit too harsh of a generalization.

The thing where they would teach you something so oversimplified so as to be flat-out wrong one year, then the following year be like "oh by the way, that was all bullshit, this is how it really is" - only to do it again the year after.

Fuck off, just teach properly from the start and say *outright* that what you're teaching is a gross oversimplification. Don't teach it like it's the truth and then pull the rug out from under people later on.

I agree, sorta. Lying to students is bull, kinda. Young kids? You kinda end up lying to them (sometimes unintentionally), you gotta paint their world black and white. I'm talking elementary age mostly. They're a little nuts, because they're essentially babies. They won't remember much of it anyway, so it isn't that big a deal, imo. Older they get, though, the more the general nuance of the world and their studies should be made clear. The teacher is not supreme authority of their subject matter and to act like it, or not sufficiently acknowledge limitations when challenged, I believe is wrong.

But as soon as we're done talking studies, and we're talking classroom dynamics / management? I'm sorry, teach is "supreme authority" there. K12 Teaching is literally a mob of munchinks / awkward pre-teens / angsty teenagers vs 1 adult. Bruh, it's my way or the highway (within obvious reason ofc). Challenge the course material all you want, drill into me about what we're learning why and how, but NEVER at the expense of the learning or respect or boundaries, etc. Many of those mobs can play "power games" like literally unconsciously, kids are nutz yo, for obvs developmental reasons. And what I'm getting at is some kids can try and take advantage of "OH, Teach ain't the end all / be all on Science or whatever, so what authority DO YOU HAVE HMMMM??" Some kids go there, 0 to 60.

Man, I personally think of teaching as motherfugging GAME OF THRONES yo. I'd like to see the lowest common denominator criticizer (not any of you OPs, btw, just venting here) come into a school year and balance: students (both in mob form and individually), parents, coworkers, admin, curriculum, work preparation and FUGGIN CORRECTION (marking, grading- I HATE IT SO MUCH) and THEN the rest of their fuggin life Shid's hard sometimes, yo. On top of that, imagine if I now set the bar for that criticizer to "Ok, you survived the year *slow clap*, now get great at it, mofo"

I think I got a little off-topic there, sorry.
Gonna respond to a couple more posts in this thread, one sec.
Also I don't disagree with a lot of what's being said here, just a little more nuance I think would do good.

 

[Eden]

People today are far more educated and literate than any period in history; imagine living in a society where 90% of people can't read or count past 10 and tell me that's a good thing. Sure we can wax lyrical about failures in the education system and the innate idiocy of people, but education can only do as well as the people it's working on.

As far as the "makes you a wagie cuck" argument goes, that's a problem much less with education and far more with capitalism in general. Education ultimately will serve what's seen as the most useful path one can take in life; that's why we have coding classes today and not machining classes. If you hate the school-to-work pipeline, go try the no-school-to-labouring-in-a-field pipeline that millions of kids are still doing in developing countries today and then ask yourself why so many people are fighting to get an education all over the world. I'm not saying its a good thing, but people do what they need to do to survive in a world that doesn't give a shit, and schooling allows that.

school is a flawed but necessary institution for teaching as many people as wide an education as possible. Is it's "shoving 30 kids in a classroom and rote teaching them maths" approach deeply flawed? Sure, and we need to iterate and improve on that, but as someone who is the beneficiary of a system that taught me maths, history, literature, as well as how to critically analyse a piece of work and reach my own conclusions, I can't outright say "This system is the worst, it's fed me lies, I hate it". Cause the alternative imo is so much worse.

I agree. I think the educational system has improved compared to the majority of human history. Ofc, that's a pretty low bar, but a worthwhile one to recognize. I also think that it's a good reminder to people who do nothing but complain about it all day without doing / writing / communicating about it and then proceed to maybe harass individuals or actively try to make a people's lives worse (eg maybe via laws or whatever).

It brings up an interesting dilemma, though? How do you change it? Incremental improvements? Yeah, that's probably the #1 route that's going to be taken because it is the one of the least resistance / maximum convenience so, yeah, it's pretty safe to bet that's how it's going to go. But everyone should know that those incremental improvements DO NOT manifest themselves + incremental bullshi* is also a thing that has to be dealt with. Sometimes these institutions are expending their energy trying to keep things from getting worse than actively developing new ways of making it better. So, even this minimal "rock the boat" route isn't bulletproof. But it's prob how I'd do it / bet on it happening.

As for any of you revolutionaries that are all "FUG THE SYSTEM", awesome, yo! Now, how much are you willing to sacrifice for your beliefs, hm? Because I bet you ain't changing society, yo. And if you're going against the grain, society's gonna make that a little hard on ya. You believe in homeschooling your kid, cause the education system sucks? I'm kinda there with you! BUT, do you know what you're signing up for there? Teaching. Your. Kid(s)? Yourself? And be certain you'll produce a version of them that is so astronomically better than what society is outputting that you feel all that effort is justified? Damn, you must really know what you're doing. Good for you, yo. No, seriously, you should write about it.

What you shouldn't do is create this repressed resentment if you decide the effort isn't worth it. Bring the best of yourself to whatever path you end up on. Try to do good, whether it be through molding your child in the ways you believe are best, or kind-heartedly supporting the system you're using. Bitterness, blind-anger isn't likely to get anybody anywhere.

Btw @Steingar, great post overall.

 

[Some_porcupine]

Man, I personally think of teaching as motherfugging GAME OF THRONES yo. I'd like to see the lowest common denominator criticizer (not any of you OPs, btw, just venting here) come into a school year and balance: students (both in mob form and individually), parents, coworkers, admin, curriculum, work preparation and FUGGIN CORRECTION (marking, grading- I HATE IT SO MUCH) and THEN the rest of their fuggin life Shid's hard sometimes, yo. On top of that, imagine if I now set the bar for that criticizer to "Ok, you survived the year *slow clap*, now get great at it, mofo"

this will be just my POV:
the problem i had (and wrote some blogpost about it, yet idk the name i gave it now; i just remember bluntly that i did XDDD)
was, - you are taught to obey - versus to life, when you have to do your own thing; life - there is no one to lead you
- and this pisses me off. - for what fuck did i went to school to be mass-produced subject, when in the end (and i believe someone said it similarly just here^), it doesnt matter at all, youll end up confussed, lost, dreamless and "made into" some form of obedient puppet that cant make shit alone (you wait for orders)

- or is it just me, being "stupid", doormat and "good kid"/"teacher's pet" *druggie*? (i.e. "aftergifted" shit)?

 

[Eden]

this will be just my POV:
the problem i had (and wrote some blogpost about it, yet idk the name i gave it now; i just remember bluntly that i did XDDD)
was, - you are taught to obey - versus to life, when you have to do your own thing; life - there is no one to lead you
- and this pisses me off. - for what fuck did i went to school to be mass-produced subject, when in the end (and i believe someone said it similarly just here^), it doesnt matter at all, youll end up confussed, lost, dreamless and "made into" some form of obedient puppet that cant make shit alone (you wait for orders)

- or is it just me, being "stupid", doormat and "good kid"/"teacher's pet" *druggie*? (i.e. "aftergifted" shit)?

I think this is a great sentiment to bring up. Personally, I also feel too many teachers (parents too!) default to "teaching kids to obey" unquestioningly, ya'know? And if that's the only kinda authority figure you are ever exposed to, then, yeah, I can see that confusing a person. I would also agree that the typical school experience doesn't really prepare a person for life. It's funny though, because for the majority of people school is an absolute part of their life, almost a universal thing for people, but over time, right? They recognize it was only a part of their much larger tale and school struggles with preparing you for that because I think it's more focused on trying to get you through that part of your life. School is about school, not life. But there's also plenty about life IN school, I sound ret**ded. Yes, I feel / agree school should prepare people for life better, how to do that is a discussion in its own right, but I don't believe you should feel like that was your fault.

What is life? It's not the curriculum I teach the kids, I'll tell you that much. But I believe there's plenty about life that a student can learn in the classroom. Forgive me, I'm going to copy-paste something I replied in another thread, here.

As a teacher, I really enjoyed listening to this lecture on the Allegory of the Cave:

Seemed like a cool professor. Being in education, I think a lot about how much of a difference I make in students' lives. I find it's easy for people to focus on a single side of the dynamic. Like, "If my teacher had been better, I would have done this and that!" or "Lol, there was no hope for me, I was a little sh*t". There's truth in both, right? Depending on the person, maybe one over the other. The reality is, "perfection" requires a multitude of factors: the "right" student, alongside the "right" teacher, sharing the "right" chemistry, at the "right" time, in the "right" place / environment, under the "right" conditions. Great things can happen with just a couple of those, but I think the exceptional occurrences are relatively rare (and the more exceptional, the rarer). I guess I usually end up concluding that I just gotta give it all my best. Thank God too, cause, imo, that's hard enough by itself.

 

[Voicedrew]

I think this is a great sentiment to bring up. Personally, I also feel too many teachers (parents too!) default to "teaching kids to obey" unquestioningly, ya'know? And if that's the only kinda authority figure you are ever exposed to, then, yeah, I can see that confusing a person. I would also agree that the typical school experience doesn't really prepare a person for life. It's funny though, because for the majority of people school is an absolute part of their life, almost a universal thing for people, but over time, right? They recognize it was only a part of their much larger tale and school struggles with preparing you for that because I think it's more focused on trying to get you through that part of your life. School is about school, not life. But there's also plenty about life IN school, I sound ret**ded. Yes, I feel / agree school should prepare people for life better, how to do that is a discussion in its own right, but I don't believe you should feel like that was your fault.

I really resonate with this bit about obedience. I couldn't stand high school. It wasn't the people, or the environment; It was how shockingly boring it was. I don't think it had anything to do with the material, because in a non academic setting I am very engaged by philosophy, law, mathematics, physics etc. I believe my lack of engagement was a concequence of the enviroment; being sat at a desk with absolutly no control over the pace of the lesson, forced to (at least pretend to) listen. I came to this conclusion after taking a CS class. My teacher would simply give us a couple of projects a week, show us some theory that could help us reach a solution, and then leave us alone. He would maybe walk around the classroom a couple of times to ask us how we were getting on, but he minimally intruded upon our autonomy.

I just started a marketing job this summer, and it's the same deal. Whereas before I could barely tolerate even 3 hours of school a day, I am often pleased by my 8 hour shift. I think the difference in the amount of control I have over what I do. I get left in an office by my self, get given a few tasks, and communicate periodically with my manager. It's awesome!

 

[Eden]

I really resonate with this bit about obedience. I couldn't stand high school. It wasn't the people, or the environment; It was how shockingly boring it was. I don't think it had anything to do with the material, because in a non academic setting I am very engaged by philosophy, law, mathematics, physics etc. I believe my lack of engagement was a concequence of the enviroment; being sat at a desk with absolutly no control over the pace of the lesson, forced to (at least pretend to) listen. I came to this conclusion after taking a CS class. My teacher would simply give us a couple of projects a week, show us some theory that could help us reach a solution, and then leave us alone. He would maybe walk around the classroom a couple of times to ask us how we were getting on, but he minimally intruded upon our autonomy.

I just started a marketing job this summer, and it's the same deal. Whereas before I could barely tolerate even 3 hours of school a day, I am often pleased by my 8 hour shift. I think the difference in the amount of control I have over what I do. I get left in an office by my self, get given a few tasks, and communicate periodically with my manager. It's awesome!

Sorry you had a sour time of it, yo. I also prefer that lesson structure, btw. But something to keep in mind is: every student is different. Some students, man, it's like, shid I could be the shidiest teacher ever, and they'd still excel. Some kids + autonomy, the sky's the limit, yo. Others? Absolute failures to launch. And, ofc, a lot of that depends on what's the subject? What's the student's context? With teaching, you have to be very "on your feet, turn on a dime". And the truth is, you won't reach 'em all, for a variety of reasons.

But, sorry, you're talking more about this from the context of a student... Advice I always give to my kids, especially cause I hear this a lot when they're struggling with a class or a teacher. The same way every kid is different, so is every teacher. If you're struggling; consider observing your instructor, listen, not just to the lesson (no but, for real, sometimes, if you hack the person hard enough, the curriculum don't matter), what they value, what they want, what they expect, FIGURE. THEM. OUT. Like a got-damn puzzle. Treat them like a motherfuggin vidya NPC, assume that they work on a fuggin algorithm. And exploit them. In a class, bring nothing external in, just prioritize "gaming" your instructor. It's not usually as try-hard as I'm making it sound, depends on how bad the situation is.

It's pretty unfortunate it's like that because in K12 you don't really have much of a choice. In Uni, you can sorta drop courses, maybe change professors, in life you can fuggin quit, yo. But when you're being forced to deal with something, like school, and having a rough time of it, consider gaming it rather than fighting it? Not sure I explained it very well, sorry.

Actually, maybe you were just complaining about how long the day is, yeah, hard agree. You guys are really in those seats too long, imo. And yeah, this is primarily a K12 prob because in Uni your classes aren't non-stop, you basically choose the schedule. Though in Uni I feel professors are even more disconnected with regard to lecturing JEEESH. Those fuggers will make you listen to a 2-hour-long spiel / shiddy slideshow. Educators and Admin should be more mindful about letting kids have more "downtime"? Not sure what to call it.

 

[manpaint]

But, sorry, you're talking more about this from the context of a student... Advice I always give to my kids, especially cause I hear this a lot when they're struggling with a class or a teacher. The same way every kid is different, so is every teacher. If you're struggling; consider observing your instructor, listen, not just to the lesson (no but, for real, sometimes, if you hack the person hard enough, the curriculum don't matter), what they value, what they want, what they expect, FIGURE. THEM. OUT. Like a got-damn puzzle. Treat them like a motherfuggin vidya NPC, assume that they work on a fuggin algorithm. And exploit them. In a class, bring nothing external in, just prioritize "gaming" your instructor. It's not usually as try-hard as I'm making it sound, depends on how bad the situation is.

Ah, this bring back memories. I am not 100% of what were my exact intentions in high school, but doing the following guranteed me absolute favoritism from teachers back in high school:

• Arriving in class early, preferably before the teacher is even there (waiting at the door)
• Never talking in class unless requested
• Reading classic literatture during reading period (1984, Stocker's Dracula, etc)
• Be that one guy without a smartphone
• Be involved in student council and stuff.

In other words, being what they perceive as the "perfect student" give you lots of advantages.

 

[Eden]

Ah, this bring back memories. I am not 100% of what were my exact intentions in high school, but doing the following guranteed me absolute favoritism from teachers back in high school:

• Arriving in class early, preferably before the teacher is even there (waiting at the door)
• Never talking in class unless requested
• Reading classic literatture during reading period (1984, Stocker's Dracula, etc)
• Be that one guy without a smartphone
• Be involved in student council and stuff.

In other words, being what they perceive as the "perfect student" give you lots of advantages.

Lol, yes, what you're likely to find is many of them value the same / similar things. So, if you get in the mood of doing them, you could be hacking multiple profs at once with a single habit. Some of you might be rolling your eyes, like, "hurr-durr, just be a good student? that's your advice?" No. The advice is pretend to be whatever they'd like you to be so that they leave you alone. What you're likely to find though is there's a pattern, but don't for a second get complacent, cause you never know what kinda person life throws your way. Don't be mindlessly goody2shoes, be mindfully attentive.

EDIT: Just wanted to clarify that this advice is primarily for when a teacher or class is giving you a hard-time and there's not much you can do about it. I don't mean to insinuate, to treat everyone this way. Or that being forced to use this strategy is a good aspect of school life. It's just meant to be a potentially useful strategy for making the best of a crappy situation.

 

[handoferis]

School would have been better if you could just sit the tests for each year whenever the fuck you wanted and progress out of order. I would have just blasted through all the shit when I was like 10 and then had a good few years just getting to do whatever the fuck I wanted.

 

[Some_porcupine]

"Do whatever you like, be gay, do drugs" (/s, unless something like that was told to kids when they are small)
- yeah fr fr I want to sweat my blood for some cucks just to be able to get-by on collecting money on luxuries I was told were "normal" on tv, seeing rich fucks wear, and being peer-pressured to belief "I am special", as nearly everyone was
Hate those lies, "feel-good support roles", when world is fucked and it is no longer 50s anymore, where getting job was *that (snap fingers) easy*
Maybe I would rather to hear "we are fucked", or "it is now on you, this is what you were born into *broadly throws hands all over the place* " , than to be lied to and "gaslit" into "work hard, so you can do whatever" - never could, never would happen to anyone in future, neither.
Like, I should rather prepare class for how to survive and combat in newly-shifted climate or something, everything but repeat those same lies til no one remembers the reason, addressee or purpose (gaslight)...

 

[. . . ...]

Real thing I legitimately hated about school (STEM specifically): The thing where they would teach you something so oversimplified so as to be flat-out wrong one year, then the following year be like "oh by the way, that was all bullshit, this is how it really is" - only to do it again the year after.

Fuck off, just teach properly from the start and say *outright* that what you're teaching is a gross oversimplification. Don't teach it like it's the truth and then pull the rug out from under people later on. This is why people who left school early or didn't pay attention (when they really needed to) just have cripplingly dumbfuck interpretations of what reality is, because the last thing they were told was total horseshit. What's the point of forcing all the kiddos into schools if you're just gonna teach them shit you know is wrong?

Do you have any concrete example of this?

When I got to A-Level chemistry, I found out that the stuff they taught us in GCSE was wrong. In GCSE iirc atoms have shells with 8 electrons(except the first), but in A-level, each shell has a differing amount of electrons(I think the formula is 2n^2). Each shell also has a subshell and a specific shape(Some thing about quantum mechnics)

 

[Some_porcupine]

When I got to A-Level chemistry, I found out that the stuff they taught us in GCSE was wrong. In GCSE iirc atoms have shells with 8 electrons(except the first), but in A-level, each shell has a differing amount of electrons(I think the formula is 2n^2). Each shell also has a subshell and a specific shape(Some thing about quantum mechnics)

2,8,18,32... S,p,d,f,k...N orbitals
Electrons group into those blobs ,c louds of various shapes - see wiki

 

[koteirl]

When I got to A-Level chemistry, I found out that the stuff they taught us in GCSE was wrong. In GCSE iirc atoms have shells with 8 electrons(except the first), but in A-level, each shell has a differing amount of electrons(I think the formula is 2n^2). Each shell also has a subshell and a specific shape(Some thing about quantum mechnics)

Same here, that really annoyed me. We got into A level and the first thing every teacher said was 'GCSE was a lie, this is how it works now'. I wouldn't have minded so much if they'd just been honest at GCSE and said it was oversimplified just to start us off, but as a child when you put all that effort in and then get told the next week it was all pointless, it's kind of infuriating. It was obvious it was simplified to an extent, but by not going into any more detail than the curriculum allows in order to get the school's exam results higher, when most subjects are orders of magnitude more complex than they are taught to kids, kills a lot of curiosity that they might have.

I've just finished my bachelors in biomed, and the skills some people were missing when we started university kind of shocked me. In particular the lack of computer literacy. I grew up on the PC so I was fine, but there were students who didn't *really* know how to use google to find what they needed. They didn't know how to use files and folders etc. Has that all been phased out in schools now? Is it the addiction to ipads and phones that everyone has that they've just forgotten how to use a desktop?

 

[Some_porcupine]

"when youll grew up, you should too, dismantle the old ways, and rebuild the world you and friends always wished for!"
first joke in the book

 

[Orlando Smooth]

When I got to A-Level chemistry, I found out that the stuff they taught us in GCSE was wrong. In GCSE iirc atoms have shells with 8 electrons(except the first), but in A-level, each shell has a differing amount of electrons(I think the formula is 2n^2). Each shell also has a subshell and a specific shape(Some thing about quantum mechnics)

Same here, that really annoyed me. We got into A level and the first thing every teacher said was 'GCSE was a lie, this is how it works now'. I wouldn't have minded so much if they'd just been honest at GCSE and said it was oversimplified just to start us off, but as a child when you put all that effort in and then get told the next week it was all pointless, it's kind of infuriating.

Yeah I was also very frustrated by the realization that the Bohr model is essentially completely false. The thing is, it actually works as a model for basic chemistry, and in any event the good faith defense of low-level science education is to teach problem solving skills and basic understanding of how the universe works instead of making leaps forward for understanding of quantum physics or whatever. And, like, imagine trying to teach a bunch of uncaring 14 year olds of average intelligence (or worse) that actually electrons exist only as statistical probabilities in oddly shaped clouds surrounding a nucleus and the various types of clouds will behave in different ways depending on what other types of clouds they're near. Teaching children in any capacity would be an undesirable prospect for me personally, but that sounds like a special kind of hell.

I took six semesters worth of chemistry classes through the chemistry department as part of my neuropharm focused biology major, as well as a number of high level bio classes that did the same kind of switcheroo about previously taught material. In every case, the rationale is that the false understanding is both a necessary predicate step in understanding what is now known to be true (Bohr model was discovered long before quantum physics) and it's "good enough" for the people who need or want some degree of understanding but are never going to be at the forefront of the field.

 

[. . . ...]

Same here, that really annoyed me. We got into A level and the first thing every teacher said was 'GCSE was a lie, this is how it works now'. I wouldn't have minded so much if they'd just been honest at GCSE and said it was oversimplified just to start us off, but as a child when you put all that effort in and then get told the next week it was all pointless, it's kind of infuriating. It was obvious it was simplified to an extent, but by not going into any more detail than the curriculum allows in order to get the school's exam results higher, when most subjects are orders of magnitude more complex than they are taught to kids, kills a lot of curiosity that they might have.

I've just finished my bachelors in biomed, and the skills some people were missing when we started university kind of shocked me. In particular the lack of computer literacy. I grew up on the PC so I was fine, but there were students who didn't *really* know how to use google to find what they needed. They didn't know how to use files and folders etc. Has that all been phased out in schools now? Is it the addiction to ipads and phones that everyone has that they've just forgotten how to use a desktop?

Going through the hard work of GCSE's studying, then found out by teachers "Oh btw, a lot of what you learn in GCSE is false or oversimplified"

 

[Dr. MacGutsy]

The faux morality and being told absolute submission is good comes to mind. Don't ever question anything. Critical thinking is only to be used to reinforce the current dogma. This is the way we've always done it.

 

[0xpizzaface]

"you won't always have a calculator on you, so you need to know how to do long form math on paper using both front & back to show your work."

*everybody has calculators built into their phones*

 

[LostintheCycle]

"you won't always have a calculator on you, so you need to know how to do long form math on paper using both front & back to show your work."

*everybody has calculators built into their phones*

We had a similar thing in our Spanish class in primary school. We had this old hag teacher nobody liked, and one student got so sick of her he said 'Whats the point of learning Spanish', and she went on about how it's good to know Spanish because you could accidentally end up in a majority-Spanish country someday and you will be totally screwed when that happens, so you should know a bit of Spanish. Then we did an activity sheet where we learned the names of sports in Spanish. If only I knew that someday I'd end up on a Spanish vaporwave forum.

 

[Pangolin]

"you won't always have a calculator on you, so you need to know how to do long form math on paper using both front & back to show your work."

*everybody has calculators built into their phones*

This one really pissed me off. They even took our calculators away one time.