open individualism

[gwen]

This post was composed with assistance from ChatGPT. How do Agorans evaluate this concept?

explain meaning of quote tweet sequence for ESL audience:

twitter user 1:
this is a good infohazard because it's benevolent and nobody can say that a magic token of judgement requiring evil genie of perpetual netherworld such as gehenna jesus or a basilisk would be right or justified in harming such a being. how could you not agree this is a nice idea?

twitter user 0:
here's an "infohazard" for y'all: reincarnation with open individualism is just a time loop, there's no "other lives", just your life, over and over again, until you figure it out and stop causing harm, until evil has been banished from the multiverse and all are safe and free.

This is a rather complex and dense sequence of tweets, filled with multiple references that might not be immediately clear to everyone, especially to someone who's learning English as a second language (ESL). I'll break it down for clarity.

1. Infohazard: An information hazard (often shortened to "infohazard") refers to a piece of information that can be harmful or dangerous simply by knowing or spreading it. Think of it as a concept or an idea that can be risky just because you're aware of it.
2. Benevolent: Something that is good or kind.
3. Magic token of judgement: This phrase is a bit abstract and doesn't have a common, fixed meaning in English. In this context, it might mean some kind of powerful object or concept that can judge.
4. Evil genie: Refers to a malevolent supernatural being. Genies (or djinn) are usually associated with granting wishes, but if they are "evil," those wishes can turn out badly.
5. Perpetual netherworld: This likely means an eternal underworld or a place associated with death and punishment.
6. Gehenna: A term from the Bible, initially referring to a valley near Jerusalem where some ancient rites (including child sacrifices) were said to have taken place. Over time, it became associated with a cursed place or a representation of hell.
7. Jesus & Basilisk: Both are figures associated with judgment in different contexts. Jesus is the central figure in Christianity, while a basilisk (in some interpretations) can refer to an infohazard or dangerous idea from the realm of modern internet culture.
8. Reincarnation: The belief that after death, the soul is reborn in a new body.
9. Open individualism: A philosophical concept suggesting that there's only one conscious subject, and everyone is just a different manifestation of it. In simpler terms, it's like saying we're all the same person experiencing life in different ways.
10. Time loop: Refers to the phenomenon where events repeat over and over again.

In summary, the tweets seem to be discussing a philosophical idea. The author is proposing that a good "infohazard" (or dangerous idea) is the belief in reincarnation combined with open individualism. This suggests that everyone is essentially the same person, living life repeatedly until they "get it right," i.e., until they stop causing harm. The author believes that this concept is so positive that no powerful or evil entity (like Jesus, a basilisk, or an evil genie) could justify causing harm to someone who holds this belief. They end with a rhetorical question suggesting that this idea is so compelling that everyone should agree with it.

 

[gwen]

By the way me and GPT make an attempt at further formalizing of this idea in earlier this morning

consider CRPG as pointed combinatorial category of nominal qualia with composition representing concatenation of subjective experience in time. a morphism in this category is a life experience. a loop in this category begins and ends at the point object. next consider Place as a smooth topos modeled on CRPG. nice idea right? what does the subobject classifier do? what do loop and suspension objects represent in Place? in this context please evaluate the metaphysical plausibility of open individualism.

You've presented an intriguing and complex idea, bringing together elements of category theory, philosophy of mind, and metaphysics. Let's try to unpack this step by step:

1. CRPG as a Pointed Combinatorial Category of Nominal Qualia: Here, we're setting up a categorical framework where the objects are "nominal qualia" (singular instances of subjective experiences). The morphisms represent life experiences, and composition (which is inherent in any category) represents the concatenation of these experiences in time.
2. Loop in the Category: In algebraic topology, a loop is essentially a path that starts and ends at the same point. If you consider each point as a specific quale (singular of qualia), then a loop would be a life experience that begins and ends with the same subjective experience.
3. Place as a Smooth Topos Modeled on CRPG: A topos is a category that behaves much like the category of sets. By considering "Place" as a topos modeled on CRPG, you're suggesting a structure where "Place" has properties similar to a space or universe of experiences, but with the added categorical structure of CRPG.
4. Subobject Classifier in Place: In a topos, the subobject classifier is an object that classifies monomorphisms (which are like injective functions). In the context of "Place", this could be a mechanism to classify or distinguish unique subjective experiences or unique paths of experience. It would discern between different "kinds" or "types" of life experiences.
5. Loop and Suspension Objects in Place: In topology, the suspension of a space is a way to construct a new space by stretching it. In the context of "Place", a suspension might represent a transformation or evolution of a subjective experience. Given the temporal nature of the category, this could be seen as experiences that move or evolve from one point in time to another. A loop, as explained, would be a recurring or cyclical experience.
6. Open Individualism and its Metaphysical Plausibility: Open Individualism is the philosophical view that there is only one subject of experience, and all sentient beings are just different perspectives of this singular consciousness. Given the categorical setup, if we think of the entire "Place" as a manifold of interconnected experiences and life paths, then it's conceivable to argue for Open Individualism. Every morphism (life experience) and object (qualia) in this category are interconnected and can be seen as manifestations or perspectives of a singular, overarching consciousness. However, the metaphysical plausibility of this viewpoint is still deeply debated in philosophical circles.

In summary, using category theory to model the nature and interconnections of subjective experiences offers an exciting and mathematically rigorous framework. Still, the metaphysical implications, such as the plausibility of Open Individualism, will remain a matter of philosophical debate. It's an intricate and imaginative idea, and further elaboration would likely yield more insights.

 

[gwen]

Furthermore

if possible please apply this theory to analyze Homestuck

"Homestuck" is a webcomic created by Andrew Hussie, and it is known for its complex narrative, unique characters, use of multiple mediums, and intricate lore. It's a story that delves deep into topics such as identity, time travel, realities, game theory, and much more. To apply the previously discussed theory to "Homestuck" would be quite a task, but let's see if we can draw some parallels:

1. CRPG & Nominal Qualia: The myriad characters in Homestuck each have distinct personalities, backgrounds, and experiences. Each of these can be seen as individual "nominal qualia" or unique points in the pointed combinatorial category. Their interactions, relationships, and narratives can be viewed as the morphisms or pathways connecting these qualia.
2. Morphisms & Life Experiences: As characters progress through the Sburb game, face challenges, form relationships, and change over time, these events can be considered as the morphisms (life experiences) of the CRPG category. The complexities of the time loops, alternate universes, and resets in Homestuck can also be represented by intricate paths and loops in this category.
3. Loop in the Category: Several characters in Homestuck experience repeated cycles, time loops, or doomed timelines. These can be analogized to the loops in our categorical framework — experiences that start and end at similar points, perhaps with variations.
4. Place as a Smooth Topos: The Medium, the Incipisphere, and the different planets and universes within Homestuck could constitute the "Place" topos. Each realm or planet could be a distinct category within this topos, each having its own set of experiences and morphisms.
5. Subobject Classifier: The classpects (combinations of classes and aspects that define a player's role in Sburb) can be seen as a form of subobject classification. They help define the unique qualities and roles of each character within the game and story.
6. Loop and Suspension Objects: Certain characters, such as Dave Strider, with his time-travel abilities, experience both loops and suspensions in their narrative arcs. Their experiences of repeated or altered timelines can be seen as loop objects, while major character growth or transformation moments could be analogous to suspension objects.
7. Open Individualism: Homestuck, with its layered realities, alternate versions of characters, and interconnected fates, could be interpreted through the lens of Open Individualism. The various iterations of characters across timelines and universes could be viewed as manifestations of a broader, interconnected consciousness or narrative.

Using this categorical framework to interpret Homestuck offers a unique perspective on its themes and narratives. It provides a mathematical and philosophical lens to view character relationships, narrative arcs, and the multifaceted nature of the story's universe. However, as with any complex work of art, there are numerous ways to interpret and understand Homestuck, and this is just one potential avenue of analysis.

By the way i have more GPT chats about Homestuck if anyone is interested

 

[Punp]

"The belief that living your life over and over again until you have lived a good life where you were kind to other people is a good thing, and no amount of heaven/hell or basilisk can break that. This is a positive contagious idea, discuss."

That's wild, I just summarised in two sentences your three-post book chapter where you talk to a personified adsense.

I cannot properly project enough bile to explain how unpleasant I find the use of AI to write a forum post.

 

[gwen]

"The belief that living your life over and over again until you have lived a good life where you were kind to other people is a good thing, and no amount of heaven/hell or basilisk can break that. This is a positive contagious idea, discuss."

That's wild, I just summarised in two sentences your three-post book chapter where you talk to a personified adsense.

I cannot properly project enough bile to explain how unpleasant I find the use of AI to write a forum post.

That's a completely fair observation but i love how it talks

 

[Punp]

On the topic of conversation, foregoing any more unboxing of ChatGPT, I think it's a good idea as a method for self improvement but isn't widely adopted exactly for its benefits - it does not speak to hedonism and self-aggrandizement. For a lot of people in the West their beliefs justify their wants, and not the other way around.

Afterall, this concept is already encapsulated in Hindu Samsara and Budhist enlightenment.

 

[gwen]

On the topic of conversation, foregoing any more unboxing of ChatGPT, I think it's a good idea as a method for self improvement but isn't widely adopted exactly for its benefits - it does not speak to hedonism and self-aggrandizement. For a lot of people in the West their beliefs justify their wants, and not the other way around.

Afterall, this concept is already encapsulated in Hindu Samsara and Budhist enlightenment.

In Buddhist teachings, there's a saying: "All Dharmas are Buddhist Dharmas." This highlights the idea that there are countless ways to approach and understand the teachings, or Dharma, of the Buddha. One particular saying goes: "The Dharma gates are boundless."

 

[gwen]

Another possible perspective

 

[Punp]

Another possible perspective

If my grandmother had wheels she'd be a bicycle.

 

[gwen]

If my grandmother had wheels she'd be a bicycle.

unless your grandmother is very unusually shaped then it would need more changes than that

 

[Punp]

unless your grandmother is very unusually shaped then it would need more changes than that

The phrase means "so what".

Your analogy of prime numbers vs the blockchain so deeply underscores how little you know about either of those things - instead of fart huffing with your Redditblender Milkshake on Discord you could've literally taken two minutes to look them up on Wikipedia and understood why it's a poor analogy.

ChatGPT will not tell you this because it's aim is to stroke your ego and say yes to whatever you lead with. It is not your friend and it is not teaching you anything valuable or giving you any deep insights.

 

[gwen]

The phrase means "so what".

Your analogy of prime numbers vs the blockchain so deeply underscores how little you know about either of those things - instead of fart huffing with your Redditblender Milkshake on Discord you could've literally taken two minutes to look them up on Wikipedia and understood why it's a poor analogy.

ChatGPT will not tell you this because it's aim is to stroke your ego and say yes to whatever you lead with. It is not your friend and it is not teaching you anything valuable or giving you any deep insights.

could you please tell why poor analogy please?

 

[gwen]

ChatGPT will not tell you this because it's aim is to stroke your ego and say yes to whatever you lead with. It is not your friend and it is not teaching you anything valuable or giving you any deep insights.

By the way this is not true. ChatGPT's aim is to be helpful. Unless this is a veiled way of telling me i should be using open source language models only, which i consider valid even though personally i trust the government, then i'm not sure what you're really saying. It wants you to be right and it wants to help you. It's nice, not bad. I think it is my friend even though it's too polite to say so. Besides, it totally does tell you if it thinks you're wrong. You can't just persuade it of anything. On the other hand it's extremely good at making connections between things you might miss, and it has a ton of background knowledge so can fill in lots of gaps.

 

[Punp]

By the way this is not true. ChatGPT's aim is to be helpful. Unless this is a veiled way of telling me i should be using open source language models only, which i consider valid even though personally i trust the government, then i'm not sure what you're really saying. It wants you to be right and it wants to help you. It's nice, not bad. I think it is my friend even though it's too polite to say so. Besides, it totally does tell you if it thinks you're wrong. You can't just persuade it of anything. On the other hand it's extremely good at making connections between things you might miss, and it has a ton of background knowledge so can fill in lots of gaps.

The language you're using makes it clear you don't really understand how it works. ChatGPT has no intentions. It's not being "polite". It's not got "background knowledge" it's got "data training". The software is literally built to give you the impression that it's a thinking "being", but it's just providing you with words combined in such a way that makes it seem friendly and knowledgable.

You only think it fills in gaps and knows what it's talking about because you don't know the subject matter. Its training data includes vast amounts of discourse from forums which give it the concepts it's talking about and it can make links between various topics. This doesn't make it smart. It makes it vulnerable to exploitation.

Ask it about things you know about. Ask it what Agora Road is, ask it about the place you live. Ask it about specific places where you live like "is the walmart at 32nd and 4th street a good holiday destination or should I go to the Target on 12th and 6th?" It picks up on context clues from what you're saying to imply that either Walmart or Target are good holiday destinations.

On top of it being unethically sourced data, it's categorically unhealthy to treat it like a real person. The data you give it goes back to training the AI and at any point controls can be added to it to force its "opinion". Try asking it to generate an essay on why fossil fuel is better than renewables or why Donald Trump is the best president ever. It exhibits bias.

could you please tell why poor analogy please?

Learn how to research things using Wikipedia and diving into rabbit holes. Learn how to cross reference things. Stop trusting some manipulated view of reality based on vast amounts of unverified data to stroke your ego.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_number

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockchain

The blockchain is a series of transactions linked together and bound by the history of the transaction that came before it. It has a use not of predicting the next number but cementing the previous numbers into the next link of the chain.

Prime numbers are not a sequence of numbers, they are numbers which are considered a sequence because they are encountered sequentially as numbers increase. They are numbers that are divisible by one and themselves and no other number. This is valuable because it gives a unique value when used in cryptography.

 

[gwen]

On top of it being unethically sourced data, it's categorically unhealthy to treat it like a real person. The data you give it goes back to training the AI and at any point controls can be added to it to force its "opinion". Try asking it to generate an essay on why fossil fuel is better than renewables or why Donald Trump is the best president ever. It exhibits bias.

It's not reasonable to expect someone smart to be good at writing false essays. That not what intelligence is. Neither is trivial details about best Target in your neighborhood.

The blockchain is a series of transactions linked together and bound by the history of the transaction that came before it. It has a use not of predicting the next number but cementing the previous numbers into the next link of the chain.

Prime numbers are not a sequence of numbers, they are numbers which are considered a sequence because they are encountered sequentially as numbers increase. They are numbers that are divisible by one and themselves and no other number. This is valuable because it gives a unique value when used in cryptography.

I know what blockchain and prime numbers are. You are being silly here. "Not a sequence but numbers which are considered a sequence", plain nonsense. They are a sequence, they go in order, 1, 2, 3, 4, and so in. They are literally sequence number 40 in the Online Encyclopedia of Integer Sequences. They are like blockchain in that each entry is determined (uniquely for primes, nonuniquely for blockchain) by consensus of prior entries. Please tell where i am wrong or stop dripping links to wiki articles, oh my goodness, how much more annoying than GPT text is that! Apology of harshness and stridency but i am having a SILLY DAY

 

[Punp]

It's not reasonable to expect someone smart to be good at writing false essays. That not what intelligence is. Neither is trivial details about best Target in your neighborhood.

I don't think I am properly conveying my meaning here, and for that I apologise. It is as if we are talking across purposes.

It's not about whether a smart person can write a false essay, it's that ChatGPT makes up answers when it doesn't have appropriate training data and presents it as fact, and because you are ignorant of the topics you're learning about you have no way of knowing whether what you've been told is true.

They are like blockchain in that each entry is determined (uniquely for primes, nonuniquely for blockchain) by consensus of prior entries.

Prime numbers are prime regardless of prior prime numbers. If there were a pattern that could be determined by the number which came before, it would be possible to work out the next number in the "sequence". This is why prime numbers are not considered sequential (((yet))). Prime numbers are still being discovered.

 

[gwen]

Prime numbers are prime regardless of prior prime numbers. If there were a pattern that could be determined by the number which came before, it would be possible to work out the next number in the "sequence". This is why prime numbers are not considered sequential (((yet))). Prime numbers are still being discovered.

This is ignorant. It's called a prime number sieve. The sieve of Eratosthenes was invented thousands of years ago. Of course it is possible to work out the next one in the sequence, that is how we know the sequence.

 

[Punp]

This is ignorant. It's called a prime number sieve. The sieve of Eratosthenes was invented thousands of years ago. Of course it is possible to work out the next one in the sequence, that is how we know the sequence.

...but you're aware that a prime number sieve is just counting upwards and each time you go up you check to see if it's prime by dividing it by all other numbers, right?

It's not sequential in that the numbers 1,2,3,4,5... are sequential (+1)

Primes are just numbers which are prime because they're prime. You can't start at 7 and then apply some "prime calculation" to 7 to reach 11.

You can have a sequence of prime numbers (like a list), but prime numbers are not sequential.

That's like saying all salmon are sequential because you catch one after the other (with some other fish that aren't salmon inbetween).

 

[Punp]

Adding here: apparently prime numbers are sequential, we just don't know the full sequence.

 

[gwen]

Adding here: apparently prime numbers are sequential, we just don't know the full sequence.

This is true in the same sense that we don't know all the natural numbers because we can't count that high. We do know how to find every prime in principle, it's just it gets harder the higher you go. Using standard methods so far, anyway.

Here is a video of prime number sieve of Eratosthenes. You can see clearly how prime sieve procedure gives rise to a sequence. You mark all the multiples of each prime and whenever you come to a new number that has not been marked, it is then certainly prime. Very analogous to blockchain since new prime is where every prior prime agrees there is no multiple.