Retaking the internet

[Dr. MacGutsy]

I'm getting increasingly annoyed with the current status of the internet and perchance wanted to fire off ideas to make it niche and decentralize it for example i was thinking of maybe a website that could host webrings and user made irc's what do u guys think?

I think a webring is a good idea. I'm working on my own webring right now. Webrings are out of the way enough that you're probably not going to be dealing with most internet trends, but provides a somewhat streamlined platform to navigate your own little internet friend group so you're not just remembering a bunch of addresses.

 

[manpaint]

I think you guys are not seeing the full picture.

The reason the internet became so centralized is that the internet was inadevertly designed as such. In its most basic expression, its just HTML CSS and Javascript. The reason why people the tech giant grew was that people wanted the service they provide.

You might just think "oh well all we need is Facebook but open source" but reality is not all that easy.

Let's take for example Mediawiki (the thing Wikipedia runs on). This is open source. You can easily download the source and make a wiki on your own. Although you can easily make a local install with relative ease, running it on a server is another beast, the main issue being:

• Server costs
• Server security
• Maintenance
• Making the thing rentable

The real problem is that hosting a website that is more than just simple HTML/CSS/JS is very difficult in the long run.

Even back in the "wild west", Geocities and MySpace were a thing for a reason. Those were exactly the same thing as Big Tech in term of centralization.

You guys probably don't want you to hear, but the internet was never "decentralized" to begin with.

 

[Some_porcupine]

I actually have zero desire to "improve". I liked the internet in the 90's/2000's because it wasn't chock full of retards and noise. It was functional and really specific. There was a barrier to entry and that was a good thing imo. Went downhill IMMEDIATELY when social media became a thing. It felt a whole lot like freedom back then on so many different levels, not this homogenized clusterfuck of advertising, algorithm driven "content", and thought control that it is today. The concept of being "cancelled" because you hurt someones feelings would have been ludicrous at the time. That's why people not old enough to have actually BEEN there are nostalgic for it - it actually WAS better...period end of story. I'm not nostalgic...I was there to experience it firsthand. I miss it because all the things I loved about the old web are pretty much all dead now and what replaced it has been total bullshit.

Utopistic Nostalgias

aesthetics.fandom.com

world we lost

"90s (Cyber/-) Positivism" and or, "Oldest (Alt.) Nets (80s-'93)"​

- Also, *when* "Oldest Web"/"Old Alt.-nets" (Work name)? (1980s-1992/93) - "Eternal September", "there is no Cabal"(*) and such? (https://aesthetics.fandom.com/wiki/Old_Web?commentId=44...54588&replyId=44...436775)

~~ Also, *when* "Oldest Web"/"Old Alt.-nets" (Work name)? (1980s-1992/93) - "Eternal September", "there is no Cabal" and such?

• There Is No Cabal (abbreviated TINC) is a catchphrase and running joke found on Usenet. The journalist Wendy M. Grossman writes that its appearance on the alt.usenet.cabal FAQ reflects conspiracy accusations as old as the Internet itself. The anthropologist Gabriella Coleman writes that the joke reveals "discomfort over the potential for corruption by meritocratic leaders". (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_Is_No_Cabal)
• Pages that link to "There Is No Cabal" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/There_Is_No_Cabal)

- https://aesthetics.fandom.com/f/p/44...52421


~ #2 - Happy hardcore x 90s positivism (also, 90s silicon valley dream on c.a.r.i. (are.na)) [look for https://www.michaklein.com/catalogue] - just note

- https://aesthetics.fandom.com/f/p/44...53803

~

90s positivism?
Tbh similar to global net coffeehouse (spiritualy speaking)
Aesthetics: https://www.michaklein.com/catalogue

The vibe: idealism over connected world, better future, "internet communism" if you will, usernet elitists in disapproval of Eternal September, "There is no Cabal", alt-net, pre-2005(7/8) net, pre- Zubatoff net capitalism, positivism, relief, fun, freedom, love, compassion, understanding, ...

Or (and)

Lost futures, vaporwave + vaporWare, warez, cyberpunk, decentralised idealists, web of people (not people for web), being free, shaping new future, libertarian "anarchy"...

- ˇ ^ https://aesthetics.fandom.com/f/p/44...53936

(^ Related: "90s Positivism") ~"Tech-zine Future"​

-- Like this:

prielom 023 :: six billion people can be wrong

[1]^ (https://aesthetics.fandom.com/f/p/44...53936/r/44...435546)


~

• Rel. aes.:
  • utopian scholastic,
  • global village coffeehouse(**),
  • y2k futurism + hauntology,
  • cassette futurism(**)
  • ... (and so on)

• Name: (TBA): "Quarter-to 21 (century)"

• Other name(s): "the way we dreamed", "tech-zine future", ("too good...") > rel. name "Neverw(h)ere futures"(*); "foamform wanna-be's", - maybe even ( < rel. name) "Little of variables accounted for (LOVAF)" (< ?)
• - (*) > sub-category: - Various futures: ($/ in-article)
• >> world imagined; in 10, 50, 100, 500 years - (1800s, 1900s, 1950s-1980s(**))
• Topics: pro-freedom hackers, cyberpunk, "long bloom", "promised 80s neverland", (once upon a time-space - Barrille) futures; human-library-utopic, free world, calm, pre-9/11 dreams (y2k), new ways-opportunities-progress, tech = (as) saviour, "gay space free commie", unity-community-mutual help-understanding, econ. boom, "kids are alright"/no real deal, small media-only, man vs himself/bad habits (spooks?), theories of mind and research (everything is relative>no meaning, value>nihilism); slow steady steps, new school(s) of thought, "kids = (are) future", "we biuld this city"/people-first, man-gov collab. ~mutual help...

~

... (copied this text to AI and asked about mark fisher + stirner + hauntology...):

• https://poe.com/s/rAQNR4Tq4rGjIoJuNFU6
  

  (...) Overall, the text reflects a deep interest in aesthetics and cultural movements, and a desire to explore the ways in which these movements reflect and shape our cultural values and ideals. The author is interested in the ways in which aesthetics can inspire creativity and imagination, and in the potential for these movements to shape a better future.

• https://poe.com/s/8gWlypHUbHrKSuMgxadI
  

  Fisher argued that these movements reflect a sense of disillusionment with the present and a longing for a future that never arrived, a future that was promised by the technological and cultural advances of the 20th century but was ultimately derailed by economic and political forces beyond our control. He believed that the cultural obsession with lost futures reflects a deeper sense of malaise and despair, which he attributed to the neoliberal economic policies and social fragmentation of the late 20th and early 21st centuries.

Yes, that's correct. Mark Fisher believed that the cultural obsession with lost futures reflects a deeper sense of malaise and despair that is present in contemporary society. He argued that this sense of malaise is a result of the failures of neoliberalism, which has led to economic inequality, social fragmentation, and a general sense of hopelessness and despair.

Fisher believed that the cultural movements that are characterized by a sense of nostalgia and longing for lost futures, such as Vaporwave and Cyberpunk, are a response to this sense of malaise. These movements offer a way for people to express their frustration with the present and their longing for a better future, even if that future is only imagined or remembered.

Overall, Fisher's work on lost futures is an attempt to understand the cultural and psychological underpinnings of contemporary society. By exploring the ways in which cultural movements reflect and respond to the social and economic conditions of their time, Fisher sought to shed light on the deeper forces that shape our beliefs, values, and aspirations.

Yes, that's correct. Mark Fisher believed that the cultural obsession with lost futures reflects a deeper sense of malaise and despair that is present in contemporary society. He argued that this sense of malaise is a result of the failures of neoliberalism, which has led to economic inequality, social fragmentation, and a general sense of hopelessness and despair.

Yes, that's right. Fisher believed that the neoliberal economic policies of the late 20th and early 21st centuries have led to a sense of malaise and despair in contemporary society. He argued that these policies have created economic inequality, social fragmentation, and a general sense of hopelessness and despair among many people.

Fisher believed that the cultural movements that are characterized by a sense of nostalgia and longing for lost futures, such as Vaporwave and Cyberpunk, are a response to this sense of malaise. He saw them as a way for people to express their frustration with the present and their longing for a better future, even if that future is only imagined or remembered.


Fisher's work on lost futures is an attempt to understand the cultural and psychological underpinnings of contemporary society. By exploring the ways in which cultural movements reflect and respond to the social and economic conditions of their time, Fisher sought to shed light on the deeper forces that shape our beliefs, values, and aspirations.

• https://poe.com/s/sIX3HaWJIBZG7fIwEkZx
  

  The author also suggests several other possible names for this aesthetic, such as "the way we dreamed," "tech-zine future," and "Neverw(h)ere futures." They also suggest subcategories within the aesthetic, such as "Various futures," which includes imagined worlds in 10, 50, 100, and 500 years, and topics such as pro-freedom hackers, cyberpunk, and theories of mind and research. (?)

Overall, the text suggests that the "Quarter-to 21 (century)" aesthetic is characterized by a sense of nostalgia for imagined or lost futures, as well as a belief in the power of technology and progress to create a better future. The aesthetic seems to be associated with various countercultural movements, such as cyberpunk and pro-freedom hacker culture, as well as with a general sense of optimism and hope for the future.

- ^ https://aesthetics.fandom.com/f/p/44...53936/r/44...435363 (... (copied this text to AI and asked about mark fisher + stirner + hauntology...)

• can relate to Promised Neverland/Lost Future in some aspects, and vice-versa, or dont have to. See, "90s Positivism" + "PNL" , which relate to this(...)

 

[alix]

Utopistic Nostalgias

aesthetics.fandom.com

world we lost

"90s (Cyber/-) Positivism" and or, "Oldest (Alt.) Nets (80s-'93)"​

- Also, *when* "Oldest Web"/"Old Alt.-nets" (Work name)? (1980s-1992/93) - "Eternal September", "there is no Cabal"(*) and such? (https://aesthetics.fandom.com/wiki/Old_Web?commentId=44...54588&replyId=44...436775)

~~ Also, *when* "Oldest Web"/"Old Alt.-nets" (Work name)? (1980s-1992/93) - "Eternal September", "there is no Cabal" and such?

• There Is No Cabal (abbreviated TINC) is a catchphrase and running joke found on Usenet. The journalist Wendy M. Grossman writes that its appearance on the alt.usenet.cabal FAQ reflects conspiracy accusations as old as the Internet itself. The anthropologist Gabriella Coleman writes that the joke reveals "discomfort over the potential for corruption by meritocratic leaders". (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_Is_No_Cabal)
• Pages that link to "There Is No Cabal" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/There_Is_No_Cabal)

- https://aesthetics.fandom.com/f/p/44...52421


~ #2 - Happy hardcore x 90s positivism (also, 90s silicon valley dream on c.a.r.i. (are.na)) [look for https://www.michaklein.com/catalogue] - just note

- https://aesthetics.fandom.com/f/p/44...53803

~





- ˇ ^ https://aesthetics.fandom.com/f/p/44...53936

(^ Related: "90s Positivism") ~"Tech-zine Future"​

-- Like this:

prielom 023 :: six billion people can be wrong

[1]^ (https://aesthetics.fandom.com/f/p/44...53936/r/44...435546)


~

• Rel. aes.:
  • utopian scholastic,
  • global village coffeehouse(**),
  • y2k futurism + hauntology,
  • cassette futurism(**)
  • ... (and so on)

• Name: (TBA): "Quarter-to 21 (century)"

• Other name(s): "the way we dreamed", "tech-zine future", ("too good...") > rel. name "Neverw(h)ere futures"(*); "foamform wanna-be's", - maybe even ( < rel. name) "Little of variables accounted for (LOVAF)" (< ?)
• - (*) > sub-category: - Various futures: ($/ in-article)
• >> world imagined; in 10, 50, 100, 500 years - (1800s, 1900s, 1950s-1980s(**))
• Topics: pro-freedom hackers, cyberpunk, "long bloom", "promised 80s neverland", (once upon a time-space - Barrille) futures; human-library-utopic, free world, calm, pre-9/11 dreams (y2k), new ways-opportunities-progress, tech = (as) saviour, "gay space free commie", unity-community-mutual help-understanding, econ. boom, "kids are alright"/no real deal, small media-only, man vs himself/bad habits (spooks?), theories of mind and research (everything is relative>no meaning, value>nihilism); slow steady steps, new school(s) of thought, "kids = (are) future", "we biuld this city"/people-first, man-gov collab. ~mutual help...

~

... (copied this text to AI and asked about mark fisher + stirner + hauntology...):

• https://poe.com/s/rAQNR4Tq4rGjIoJuNFU6

• https://poe.com/s/8gWlypHUbHrKSuMgxadI

Yes, that's correct. Mark Fisher believed that the cultural obsession with lost futures reflects a deeper sense of malaise and despair that is present in contemporary society. He argued that this sense of malaise is a result of the failures of neoliberalism, which has led to economic inequality, social fragmentation, and a general sense of hopelessness and despair.

Fisher believed that the cultural movements that are characterized by a sense of nostalgia and longing for lost futures, such as Vaporwave and Cyberpunk, are a response to this sense of malaise. These movements offer a way for people to express their frustration with the present and their longing for a better future, even if that future is only imagined or remembered.

Overall, Fisher's work on lost futures is an attempt to understand the cultural and psychological underpinnings of contemporary society. By exploring the ways in which cultural movements reflect and respond to the social and economic conditions of their time, Fisher sought to shed light on the deeper forces that shape our beliefs, values, and aspirations.

Yes, that's correct. Mark Fisher believed that the cultural obsession with lost futures reflects a deeper sense of malaise and despair that is present in contemporary society. He argued that this sense of malaise is a result of the failures of neoliberalism, which has led to economic inequality, social fragmentation, and a general sense of hopelessness and despair.

Yes, that's right. Fisher believed that the neoliberal economic policies of the late 20th and early 21st centuries have led to a sense of malaise and despair in contemporary society. He argued that these policies have created economic inequality, social fragmentation, and a general sense of hopelessness and despair among many people.

Fisher believed that the cultural movements that are characterized by a sense of nostalgia and longing for lost futures, such as Vaporwave and Cyberpunk, are a response to this sense of malaise. He saw them as a way for people to express their frustration with the present and their longing for a better future, even if that future is only imagined or remembered.


Fisher's work on lost futures is an attempt to understand the cultural and psychological underpinnings of contemporary society. By exploring the ways in which cultural movements reflect and respond to the social and economic conditions of their time, Fisher sought to shed light on the deeper forces that shape our beliefs, values, and aspirations.

• https://poe.com/s/sIX3HaWJIBZG7fIwEkZx

Overall, the text suggests that the "Quarter-to 21 (century)" aesthetic is characterized by a sense of nostalgia for imagined or lost futures, as well as a belief in the power of technology and progress to create a better future. The aesthetic seems to be associated with various countercultural movements, such as cyberpunk and pro-freedom hacker culture, as well as with a general sense of optimism and hope for the future.

- ^ https://aesthetics.fandom.com/f/p/44...53936/r/44...435363 (... (copied this text to AI and asked about mark fisher + stirner + hauntology...)

• can relate to Promised Neverland/Lost Future in some aspects, and vice-versa, or dont have to. See, "90s Positivism" + "PNL" , which relate to this(...)

The greatest loss of the web wasn't decentralizacion, it was tech positivism. We do no longer search for a positive future, we remind ourselves of nostalgic futured corrupted by our modified version of the "old days". We do no longer search for hope and a future, we resort to fake ones so we can try to escape the general soulless spirit that is present everywhere, like ultraminimalism or Corporate Memphis

 

[Some_porcupine]

The greatest loss of the web wasn't decentralizacion, it was tech positivism. We do no longer search for a positive future, we remind ourselves of nostalgic futured corrupted by our modified version of the "old days". We do no longer search for hope and a future, we resort to fake ones so we can try to escape the general soulless spirit that is present everywhere, like ultraminimalism or Corporate Memphis

i wrote it as such
it is, reminder of "see? what they took away from you/us!" - "see?! what we lost; what could be?!"
- this type of pain, longing; place you remember, and you hoped it will be there, forever to stay, "the perfection"...

this too - "globohomo" critique:
3am, 16/7/23

Nechcem nikomu ublizit. Ale ak ublizia mne? Bude to fer? Alebo to bude len vyhovorka! Pomsta pomste? Ak to vsak necham byt (len tak), potom to normalzujem. Kto urcuje co este/uz je normalne, moralne - a co uz nie?! ~ Vyprovokovany/i!?

Ako ocakavat poslusnost, ak dana vec nedava zmysel a len utvrdzuje moc?! Ak si niekto (som to (aj) ja?) zo dna na den nieco zmysli, potom co zarucuje, ze je to aj spravne, ze to dava zmysel, ze by to - bez rozmyslu - mali robit aj vsetci ostatni, vacsina; vobec niekedy niekto?!

Homogenizacia (Generalizacia | „globohomo" XD) ~ Attack na „nespracovany Normal (Normies)" - bud nesuhlasis, *alebo* [sic] „podporujes Fasistov (strata vyznamu), Rasistov, Xenofobov, Pedofilov (/i)...
- Amerikanizacia, zozapadnenie sveta. - Kto urci, kedy dost; kde je „sever"!

~$50-ova nalepka „Neznasam Kapitalizmus"~ je toto Sucastny - absolutny stav (/s) Sveta!? - Len jediná „Cesta", „Sposob" zitia/zivota, existencie, prezivania, myslenia? Korporatna „podpora" [X] (len naoko) - len aby sa (tak-tak) „nezdvihli" masy.

Som (to) teda zvedavy co sa stane, ked (ak) tato hra prestane byt zabavna (ziskova, popularna) a omamna, otupna, pre vsetky zainteresovane strany.

Pride nova Šaráda? Alebo nepokoje? Vyjde na povrch skutocna, neskreslena realita vecí; pokrytectvo, pretvarka, len (pre) vidina (nekonecneho) zisku; len „pouhé" vykoristovanie trendu - „hip with the kids"!? ~ ako dlho nam toto vydrzi - ako dlho je toto všetko udrzatelne?!

---

​

Co je horsie - prijat neprijatelne, alebo (radsej) ostat sam?

Globalizacia trhu - bolo to nutne? „Demokratizacia" tiez. Len zamienka, zisky, a vojny?

Ako moct vediet co je spravne a co nie!

Svet co sa meni a pouziva slova len ako frazy, ktorych vyznam sa (tiez) meni z roka na rok, z dekady na dekadu. ~ Smrdi to umelinou - kampanou (kto?), nefér hrou - kto meni vyznam, ma potom (s-) tú moc menit fakty(?), pravdy, pravidla, zmysel - robit(?) si z ludi blaznov...

Podpora™ (/s) inakosti; Anarchia(,) sponzorovana (/cyn) (korp.) znackami - falosna, na okrasu (pochvalu), nic nehovoriaca.

Poznas Green-washing - co tak ale Queer-washing? Pozlatko, trend - a v pozadi mozne vykoristovanie, prizivovanie sa - na „fanbas-e" podpore spolocnostou (luds.).
- Preco vsak podporovat korporacie; ked, radsej, podporme(!) tych, co (priamo) vyrabaju tento merch (o.i.) ~ out-sorcing, off-shore... „Malé" fabriky robotnikov v krajinach III. sveta, - kde o tychto „zhyralostiach" ani chyru - ani slychu!!?

(# No, thanks tho, „Orange Emily/pol/!")
~ # Queerpo-cracy/Corpo-Queercy...

(sorry, in Slovak, i just - it was easier to write, and that - at 3am XD)

 

[GhostInTheMachine]

If you mean by retaking, to carve out a niche, then I agree. Challenging the big wigs is one thing, but to make sure we have our own space is more important. The worst thing to happen to a scene is for it to become mainstream. A counter-culture everyone knows about and accepts would hardly be one. I wouldn't want to see Agora Road's Macintosh Café become McDonalds.

My college experience has certainly been different than my parents because everyone at my school is deathly afraid of talking with one another. I mean, why talk to a new person on the first day of the semester when you can just go on instagram reels? It depresses me because I am a naturally very shy person, so I have relied most of my life on extroverted people initiating conversations with me to make friends, but now I can't rely on that anymore. I guess it'll be good to learn how to talk to people, idk.

I am in the same situation. Talking to people is really the way to go. That's what I decided to do, and while it felt awkward at first, it has really paid off, for me, but especially for those around me. I simply started making aquaintances with people I regularly see, those taking the same courses as me, residency hall neighbors, friends of friends etc. At first it felt forced, which it was, and had to be, but it quickly became natural.
Of course most interactions wont result in any sort of real friendship, but then I realised, that is not the important part: Say for example aquaintance A casually mentions a woodworking project he is doing, and a few weeks later I get to know B somewhere, who also mentions something about woodworking. What I can then do is find a way to casually introduce them to eachother. While to me they are no more than aquaintences, by setting them up, A and B may then become BFFs, who knows.
You may think "Wow, all that effort and there is nothing in it for me?" Wrong! What you get is a net societal positive. The culture of loneliness is breached. The exact thing you wish for becomes normalised. Do not underestimate the effect your actions, no, your whole existence has on your direct surroundings. The clichée is right: Become the change you want to see. Isn't that what we all wish for, for someone else to force us out of our shells? Become the "extrovert" you want in your life! I say "extrovert" in quotes, because you don't even need to be one; You can still prefer your own company.
I live in a very introverted culture, and the internet hasn't made it any better, but it still came as a surprise how many others yearn for such a thing. In hindsight I now notice how much I have unknowingly shaped the friend circles around me. Just by getting people to meet who otherwise wouldn't have dared to. It wasn't even intentional on my part. I didn't even do all that much! Truth be told, I made the minimum effort, but the harvest is fruitful indeed.
Off-topic tirade aside, I recommend anyone reading struggling with the same thing, to try this out at least once.

Spoiler

(Only remaining pitfall for me is remembering names. Even worse, as a foreigner I have a pretty memorable name, so everyone seems to know mine. Alas.)

 

[alix]

i wrote it as such
it is, reminder of "see? what they took away from you/us!" - "see?! what we lost; what could be?!"
- this type of pain, longing; place you remember, and you hoped it will be there, forever to stay, "the perfection"...

this too - "globohomo" critique:
3am, 16/7/23

Nechcem nikomu ublizit. Ale ak ublizia mne? Bude to fer? Alebo to bude len vyhovorka! Pomsta pomste? Ak to vsak necham byt (len tak), potom to normalzujem. Kto urcuje co este/uz je normalne, moralne - a co uz nie?! ~ Vyprovokovany/i!?

Ako ocakavat poslusnost, ak dana vec nedava zmysel a len utvrdzuje moc?! Ak si niekto (som to (aj) ja?) zo dna na den nieco zmysli, potom co zarucuje, ze je to aj spravne, ze to dava zmysel, ze by to - bez rozmyslu - mali robit aj vsetci ostatni, vacsina; vobec niekedy niekto?!

Homogenizacia (Generalizacia | „globohomo" XD) ~ Attack na „nespracovany Normal (Normies)" - bud nesuhlasis, *alebo* [sic] „podporujes Fasistov (strata vyznamu), Rasistov, Xenofobov, Pedofilov (/i)...
- Amerikanizacia, zozapadnenie sveta. - Kto urci, kedy dost; kde je „sever"!

~$50-ova nalepka „Neznasam Kapitalizmus"~ je toto Sucastny - absolutny stav (/s) Sveta!? - Len jediná „Cesta", „Sposob" zitia/zivota, existencie, prezivania, myslenia? Korporatna „podpora" [X] (len naoko) - len aby sa (tak-tak) „nezdvihli" masy.

Som (to) teda zvedavy co sa stane, ked (ak) tato hra prestane byt zabavna (ziskova, popularna) a omamna, otupna, pre vsetky zainteresovane strany.

Pride nova Šaráda? Alebo nepokoje? Vyjde na povrch skutocna, neskreslena realita vecí; pokrytectvo, pretvarka, len (pre) vidina (nekonecneho) zisku; len „pouhé" vykoristovanie trendu - „hip with the kids"!? ~ ako dlho nam toto vydrzi - ako dlho je toto všetko udrzatelne?!

​

---

Co je horsie - prijat neprijatelne, alebo (radsej) ostat sam?

Globalizacia trhu - bolo to nutne? „Demokratizacia" tiez. Len zamienka, zisky, a vojny?

Ako moct vediet co je spravne a co nie!

Svet co sa meni a pouziva slova len ako frazy, ktorych vyznam sa (tiez) meni z roka na rok, z dekady na dekadu. ~ Smrdi to umelinou - kampanou (kto?), nefér hrou - kto meni vyznam, ma potom (s-) tú moc menit fakty(?), pravdy, pravidla, zmysel - robit(?) si z ludi blaznov...

Podpora™ (/s) inakosti; Anarchia(,) sponzorovana (/cyn) (korp.) znackami - falosna, na okrasu (pochvalu), nic nehovoriaca.

Poznas Green-washing - co tak ale Queer-washing? Pozlatko, trend - a v pozadi mozne vykoristovanie, prizivovanie sa - na „fanbas-e" podpore spolocnostou (luds.).
- Preco vsak podporovat korporacie; ked, radsej, podporme(!) tych, co (priamo) vyrabaju tento merch (o.i.) ~ out-sorcing, off-shore... „Malé" fabriky robotnikov v krajinach III. sveta, - kde o tychto „zhyralostiach" ani chyru - ani slychu!!?

(# No, thanks tho, „Orange Emily/pol/!")
~ # Queerpo-cracy/Corpo-Queercy...

(sorry, in Slovak, i just - it was easier to write, and that - at 3am XD)

The main "enemies" are the corporations.
Your post reminds me of the "underground is fake" thread. When the "transition public" (name that I give to the public that has tastes and interests differents from the general "normies" but not as niche as what would be the underground) starts having interest in the trends in the underground, the corps immediately expand this to the "normies", overusing this trends just to win more and more money, killing their true meaning. It happened with grunge, for example. However, there was a difference with the modern corporate trends. Soul.
Frutiger Aero, Y2K, grunge, and more aesthetics ended up being corporation"s cash cow. But why do we remember them with love, unlike the current Corporate Memphis? Two reasons: nostalgia and soul. This positive soul made it have hope, hope for a better future, one where tech and nature lived peacefully together. But we lost that fuitre. Or maybe not?
If we want to return soul not only to the web, but to everything related with tech as a whole, nostalgia is not the solution. Vaporwave became a meme among the masses, and synthwave/80s nostalgia became a soulless nostalgic cashgrab by the corps. The solution is not a return to the old, but a creation of something new. Something that is truly new, and that gives the same hope that technopositivism had. It may be turned into a cash cow by the corps again, but hope may be revived. And maybe we will be able to fix the errors that we commited in the past.

 

[manpaint]

Two reasons: nostalgia and soul.

The thing is, "soul" is not an inherent propriety of a subject. In the context you are describing, the closest thing would be something being "detailed".

Again, we think that things being "detailed" is good because that's what we grew up exposed to. For the "normies" and people growing up now, they likely consider minimalist interface to be "beautiful and elegant" and think that stuff like Neocities is over-complexified garbage or at best memey.

It's all about perspective.

 

[alix]

The thing is, "soul" is not an inherent propriety of a subject. In the context you are describing, the closest thing would be something being "detailed".

Again, we think that things being "detailed" is good because that's what we grew up exposed to. For the "normies" and people growing up now, they likely consider minimalist interface to be "beautiful and elegant" and think that stuff like Neocities is over-complexified garbage or at best memey.

It's all about perspective.

Frutiger Aero was also relatively simple, but it also gives a feeling of "calm hope". Also I'm not talking about Neocities stuff only. I mean EVERYTHING. Perhaps what we need is a feeling of hope.

 

[alix]

Frutiger Aero was also relatively simple, but it also gives a feeling of "calm hope". Also I'm not talking about Neocities stuff only. I mean EVERYTHING. Perhaps what we need is a feeling of hope.

In fact, all of us should start doing something to fix the situation. I don't want this to turn into a movement like the Yesterweb but extending this idea over other places of the Internet might be the best. I mean, Gen Z is already liking Y2K, Frutiger and shows like Lain, so why wouldn't some of them start looking in the more niche parts?
However, we shouldn't make this mainstream neither promote this forum, as the small community is one of its best things. However, we could start taking some steps, even if they are really small.

 

[manpaint]

Frutiger Aero was also relatively simple, but it also gives a feeling of "calm hope". Also I'm not talking about Neocities stuff only. I mean EVERYTHING. Perhaps what we need is a feeling of hope.

As a graphic designer, making Frutiger Aero is not that easy lol. The switch to minimalism is caused by two main factors:

• Minimalism is more easy to create
• Minimalism (aka everything being a vector and basic CSS) is way more scalable.

As for the feeling of "calm hope" the old internet, I think that this was simply due to the fact that most people using the internet at the time were nerds and most nerds did not not watched TV/Radio/Journal and thus did not "tainted" the internet. As for thing like Aero giving hope, I think its just because we associate this style with the aforementionned thing.

 

[Some_porcupine]

hope
only if "nice, popular" wasnt also "profitable"...
this reminds me of plebbit subs going NSFW for sake of protesting "no 3rd party" policy change
when niche and usable becomes monopoly...

what prevents - us - from becoming this meme - good places becoming soulless, - just for "the sake" of - place
for - audience, demographic, target group
for money, - for - becoming "what they swore to never became!?"

i wonder how and why that happens, how this can be prevented, averted, ... - is it that generalizations are the problem - like, fandom being in clash over "lore" - dividing it, or let alone destroy on itself?

...

 

[manpaint]

hope
only if "nice, popular" wasnt also "profitable"...
this reminds me of plebbit subs going NSFW for sake of protesting "no 3rd party" policy change
when niche and usable becomes monopoly...

what prevents - us - from becoming this meme - good places becoming soulless, - just for "the sake" of - place
for - audience, demographic, target group
for money, - for - becoming "what they swore to never became!?"

i wonder how and why that happens, how this can be prevented, averted, ... - is it that generalizations are the problem - like, fandom being in clash over "lore" - dividing it, or let alone destroy on itself?

...

Assuming you mean "how can Agora not degrade likes anything else", the key is to not care and go with the flow (something this place already does) and not have any hard-coded defined ideas. As another Agorian said:

Always remember that love and hate are both two side of the same coin.

 

[Some_porcupine]

As for thing like Aero giving hope, I think its just because we associate this style with the aforementionned thing.

or that feeling, "living in the future"
when y2k came, it was for people, like dream, fascination - hope:
- year 2000 is at the door, world looks bright, internet is "ough" to "solve" all our problems, maybe even "to topple the game (of rich bastards) down"...
-- feeling like this - if you got me (this sentiment, dream of utopia, unity, mutual understanding "coz of net" - oh man, if they knew...)

@manpaint : Always remember that love and hate are both two side of the same coin.

- which reminds me of thread [sic] "MLP and New Sincerity" - about being sincere, "you", - all that *sweet* (or not) jazz...

 

[alix]

or that feeling, "living in the future"
when y2k came, it was for people, like dream, fascination - hope:
- year 2000 is at the door, world looks bright, internet is "ough" to "solve" all our problems, maybe even "to topple the game (of rich bastards) down"...
-- feeling like this - if you got me (this sentiment, dream of utopia, unity, mutual understanding "coz of net" - oh man, if they knew...)

That's whst I meant. Thank you for explaining it, I didn't know the exact words for it

 

[manpaint]

or that feeling, "living in the future"
when y2k came, it was for people, like dream, fascination - hope:
- year 2000 is at the door, world looks bright, internet is "ough" to "solve" all our problems, maybe even "to topple the game (of rich bastards) down"...
-- feeling like this - if you got me (this sentiment, dream of utopia, unity, mutual understanding "coz of net" - oh man, if they knew...)

I think most of the current "holy fuck the future is going to be so bad" vibe come from the notion that the future had been previously overhyped that backfired overly. Truth to be told, I am unsure if there is even something to blame for that. Probably just the result of a post Cold War world I guess.

I mean, Gen Z is already liking Y2K, Frutiger and shows like Lain, so why wouldn't some of them start looking in the more niche parts?

I have a friend who most Agorians would deem as an "uber normie" that recently watched Lain and started decorating his Discord profile with stuff from the show. That being said, if you went back 10 years ago, he would have been described as a "nerd". IMO I think this more a personality thing than people "waking up". It also helps that the world cannot be clearly defined as "normie vs nerds".

 

[Some_porcupine]

or that feeling, "living in the future"
when y2k came, it was for people, like dream, fascination - hope:
- year 2000 is at the door, world looks bright, internet is "ough" to "solve" all our problems, maybe even "to topple the game (of rich bastards) down"...
-- feeling like this - if you got me (this sentiment, dream of utopia, unity, mutual understanding "coz of net" - oh man, if they knew...)

- which reminds me of thread [sic] "MLP and New Sincerity" - about being sincere, "you", - all that *sweet* (or not) jazz...

addendum:

• #0 punks and emos of 2000s-2010s: basically "When we were young" fest, - safe for fact it was then "current thing": pic-rel + all those rock, punk, emo, - things playing on radio --- a psyop??? + 80s (music, not aesthetics) nostalgia occuring around that time... : music-rel (yeah, pretty much this playlist is "getting rich" from nostalgia - go, figure :/)
• #1 youtube campaign "broadcoast yourself" - dawg man, i am so confussed how we could "get bought" over this - and believe come corporation! it sounds so - ironic; looking at it from lens of someone, living in *these* times "after fad"... - really believing(?) that commonmen can, thru sheer "influence" thru net, shape world... (what a joke!!!) [were we sold on *this feeling"!???]
• #1b general naiivity over "corporations allowing us all this" - how was that not suspicious!! i wonder... (letting our guard and awareness so low) ~ but then, werent we (born 1999-and so; living with siblings (sister), of 8 year difference...)
• #1.5 campaign of web providers (geocities, goDaddy or such), *basically* saying "be you"/"promote yourself"
  • (if you get me, that is; i am - getting nostalgic, over something i very fogly remember - in fact, now i get - why those "boomers" over here are getting nostalgic over living in socialism (when, they were kids... - so was i...)
  • --- WAS this all^ psy-op - contrarian messages, just "selling feeling", scham, make-believe dreams?
    • or is it that *there somewhere*, it was "all taken away from us" - well, as i see, that is very little probability, and it was just tactic to "get everyone on net" - those fxxx bastards!! (#me, being naiive...)

 

[manpaint]

[*]or is it that *there somewhere*, it was "all taken away from us" - well, as i see, that is very little probability, and it was just tactic to "get everyone on net" - those fxxx bastards!! (#me, being naiive...)

I highly doubt this was the result of some grand design. It was just people jumping on the opportunity to capitalize on an emerging technology.

 

[alix]

I highly doubt this was the result of some grand design. It was just people jumping on the opportunity to capitalize on an emerging technology.

And it honestly was something that was gonna happen sooner or later. The massive power of the net was gonna be seen sooner or later by corps. The only solution is creating our own place like this. Neocities, Agora Road, Lainchan, personal webs, this whole "indie web" is the best solution, evn if it sucks. The best thing we can do is spread technopositivism again, but a return to the "good old days" is impossible

 

[Some_porcupine]

And it honestly was something that was gonna happen sooner or later. The massive power of the net was gonna be seen sooner or later by corps. The only solution is creating our own place like this. Neocities, Agora Road, Lainchan, personal webs, this whole "indie web" is the best solution, evn if it sucks. The best thing we can do is spread technopositivism again, but a return to the "good old days" is impossible

- if so, lets go!
lets make art movement!
i will start thread, for the sake of it
if we cant return, we can "make our own" then
as opposition of Google minimalism, neo-memphis and roundness (ugly)
protest art-form!