The dangers of minimalism

[InsufferableCynic]

Sorry for "this thread again"

I recently saw this twitter thread (>tfw using big tech) talking about minimalism in modern society, and how it's basically sucked the identity and soul out of everything

I have noticed an absolute plague of minimalist design in my city too, it really sucks to see everything is becoming an overly simplified hellhole with a lack of identity.

Personally I think they do it on purpose. Minimalist design is a form of propaganda. The message is clear: In much the same way as your city is designed to conform, not have an identity, and not express itself, you are expected to do the same thing. I definitely feel like they are trying to foster a mindset of compliance and foster an entire population to not have any sort of identity at all, that way they can easily be shaped into mindless consumers and worker drones. It's easy to mindlessly wander against a backdrop of identity-less stuff that simply exists, with no interaction whatsoever. Minimalism isn't just ugly and soulless, it's actively harmful and it needs to be stopped.

Personally I feel this is part of post-modernism expressing itself, which in itself is a form of propaganda. When every opinion is equally valid, why bother making anything good?

What are your thoughts on minimalism? Do you have any "favourite" infamous examples of minimalism going way too far?

 

[Elektrine]

You'll own nothing. And you'll be happy.

 

[InsufferableCynic]

You'll own nothing. And you'll be happy.

You better not have an original opinion, shitlord!

Seriously though, when people think "You'll own nothing", they think about posessions. Which is fair enough. But it goes further than this - you won't have intellectual capital either. You won't be able to have unique ideas or opinions, or even personal experiences. Just do the corporate approved thing, have the experience you're supposed to have and that was set up ahead of time, and then pay your money. Minimalism furthers that goal. We can't have anything remotely interesting because people might have unique perspectives or takes on things. Instead, everything must be super boring, and the only "fun" stuff is the prepackaged "fun" we approve of and sell to you as a product.

In terms of purely possessions, we're already at that point. We pay for subscription services filled with content we don't own, discuss them on platforms we don't control, on devices that can be remotely deactivated at any time without our consent. Everything from our food to our leisure devices are heavily regulated by the government, and even something as simple as making an extension to our own house requires a whole bunch of local government approvals and forms. In most countries there are a plethora of things we simply cannot own, period, like guns, or various drugs, etc. In my state I'm not legally allowed to adopt a fox as a pet, despite wanting to.

We already own nothing. It's not a "conspiracy theory" if it's the observable reality.

 

[Mеченый Яков]

People is really scared of minimalism? LJDASKLDJASLK what a bunch of pussies, as a graphic designer i love minimalism, i literally go paid 100 dollars for a logo that took me 30 minutes to do, oh man oh man, i love market trendings, specially if it does my work easier, keep the grinding on, keep the normies scared off.

 

[Deleted member 2362]

Why are all of your thread titles so dramatic and everything an ever life-changing issue? relax dude.

Posting an example of good minimalism because nostalgia duh

 

[Pietheknight]

Tag your city with spray paint to stop minimalism and free the worker bees

 

[SomaSpice]

I love maximalism. But if maximalism was the most popular trend nowadays people would complain because things would feel noisy, obnoxious, and intrusive.

In this same hypothetical scenario, I'm sure minimalism then would be considered a respite from modern culture, and we would be posting in a counterculture iOS-like forum complaining about the maximalist propaganda being shoved down our throats.

I don't think its true that certain design trends are good or evil, or that they are soulful or soulless. That depends solely on the artistry and intention behind it. In the end we like to complain about the groups we oppose and try to differentiate ourselves from them, and that's that.

 

[Aral]

I have noticed an absolute plague of minimalist design in my city too, it really sucks to see everything is becoming an overly simplified hellhole with a lack of identity.

Personally I think they do it on purpose. Minimalist design is a form of propaganda. The message is clear: In much the same way as your city is designed to conform, not have an identity, and not express itself, you are expected to do the same thing. I definitely feel like they are trying to foster a mindset of compliance and foster an entire population to not have any sort of identity at all, that way they can easily be shaped into mindless consumers and worker drones. It's easy to mindlessly wander against a backdrop of identity-less stuff that simply exists, with no interaction whatsoever. Minimalism isn't just ugly and soulless, it's actively harmful and it needs to be stopped.

Tbh I very much agree with your perspective. I find minimalist stuff depressing, soulless, cold, and devoid of identity. In my town people paint their houses in these pukeworthy shades of grey when the architecture is totally unfit for that too. My mother and I are looking to move into a new house and we visited one of these new made social housings. The interior is basically the same in every of these: black/grey tiled flooring, white roughcast everywhere on the walls. Basically you can't even put linoleum or wallpaper to hide the suck: you're stuck with this disgusting white and grey colour scheme. We have found a 1960s/70s era apartment since and hope to be chosen by the landlady as the new tenants.

I had no idea that it could be a propaganda thing but now that I think of it, that makes sense. We are more and more pushed towards a society of uniformity, and this is extremely scary. Your post just made me think that maybe, this monochrome colour scheme is also meant to strip off our feelings of happiness. Colours have an effect on how we feel, so do our surroundings and the places we live in. If we live in a mostly colorless area, this says volumes imo, and can depress us pretty quick. Here in my town new social housing is being built and I noticed black blinds/doors are very much in fashion.. BLERGH, WHEN DID IT EVER LOOK GOOD? White or wooden coloured blinds are much better. And I noticed that these buildings are sometimes built right next, or in the vicinity of older ones... which makes for a pretty weird contrast.

I'd rather live in a commie block rather than one of these monstrosities, because commie blocks at least have beautiful wallpapers and floors. Not just plain black and white. Urgh. It bothers me even more as an artistic minded person.

 

[RisingThumb]

Sorry for "this thread again"

I recently saw this twitter thread (>tfw using big tech) talking about minimalism in modern society, and how it's basically sucked the identity and soul out of everything

I have noticed an absolute plague of minimalist design in my city too, it really sucks to see everything is becoming an overly simplified hellhole with a lack of identity.

Personally I think they do it on purpose. Minimalist design is a form of propaganda. The message is clear: In much the same way as your city is designed to conform, not have an identity, and not express itself, you are expected to do the same thing. I definitely feel like they are trying to foster a mindset of compliance and foster an entire population to not have any sort of identity at all, that way they can easily be shaped into mindless consumers and worker drones. It's easy to mindlessly wander against a backdrop of identity-less stuff that simply exists, with no interaction whatsoever. Minimalism isn't just ugly and soulless, it's actively harmful and it needs to be stopped.

Personally I feel this is part of post-modernism expressing itself, which in itself is a form of propaganda. When every opinion is equally valid, why bother making anything good?

What are your thoughts on minimalism? Do you have any "favourite" infamous examples of minimalism going way too far?

Simplicity isn't the same as minimalism. Simplicity *is* the highest form of elegance but a lot of people have a really bad idea of simplicity, thinking it means lacking detail. I personally *really really like* simplicity, and don't care for minimalism.
Also by using the Devil's special bird cage, Twitter, you contribute to a world that is less simple.

 

[Jessica3cho雪血⊜青意]

Honestly, I love brutalism. Give me more brutalist designs.

View attachment brutalist-buildings-college-03.webp

 

[InsufferableCynic]

Why are all of your thread titles so dramatic and everything an ever life-changing issue? relax dude.

I titled my thread after the title of the Twitter thead I linked.

I love maximalism. But if maximalism was the most popular trend nowadays people would complain because things would feel noisy, obnoxious, and intrusive.

In this same hypothetical scenario, I'm sure minimalism then would be considered a respite from modern culture, and we would be posting in a counterculture iOS-like forum complaining about the maximalist propaganda being shoved down our throats.

I don't think its true that certain design trends are good or evil, or that they are soulful or soulless. That depends solely on the artistry and intention behind it. In the end we like to complain about the groups we oppose and try to differentiate ourselves from them, and that's that.

Good point. Maybe I am falling into the same trap.

I guess there's a critical difference between minimalism as a genuine choice for an art style, and minimalism because it's inoffensive (like Algeria art) or because it's cheap and easy to produce and maintain. In these cases it is quite literally soulless - the art is compromised purely because of some other real-world reason.

As for minimalism in general society, I guess companies and governments just don't care anymore. I have seen beautiful walls in my hometown which were covered in high-quality graffiti art and beloved by the community completely whitewashed because a single Karen complained. Within a week, the whitewashing was covered in ugly tags.

It seems in the modern "don't offend anyone" culture, minimalism makes a lot of sense, and not for artistic or genuine reasons. I can understand making a simple piece of art for genuine reasons, but there's definitely an alterior motive at play here.

I guess the prime example of this oversimplification for the sake of cost rather than for genuine artistic reasons is in housing. Houses have largely changed from unique individual dwellings to the same prefab houses and apartments going up by the hundreds and all virtually identical - quickly produced on the cheap to sell for maximum profit as quickly as possible. No personality or soul. Why bother finely crafting anything in one of these houses when you're just building it to sell it as quickly as possible?

 

[Orlando Smooth]

Personally I think they do it on purpose.

They do it on purpose, but not for the reasons you're suggesting. In the 2000's most branding was far more unique and varied than it is now, so as we entered the 2010's minimalist design language was seen as "new" and "subversive." Then marketing departments made the realization that having minimalist design language and relatively bland branding would lead to marginally more sales, because people were not put off by the logo or whatever. These were very small numbers, single digit percentage points or less in the case of pre-existing big brands, but 0.1% of billions of dollars in revenue is still a very large amount of money. So then it became very normalized as execs and marketing firms adopted the policy of "well competitor XYZ is doing it, so we have to too in order to stay competitive, right?" Leading to the phenomena you're describing. I fully expect this trend to be completely reversed by ~2030 when we're in good times again and the masses no longer want to buy products that look boring, and millennials are firmly in the "too old to be cool/marketed to" category.

Side note, anyone remember the Cherry Coke logo design from the mid 90's? My very young self thought it was so badass. Now THAT'S what I call pre-minimalism.

 

[remember_summer_days]

I doubt minimalism is some sort of intentional propaganda. However, you make a very good point about how contemporary society expects us to conform. But at the same time, I feel this weird paradox of nonconformity being a sort of conformity, or perhaps a better way to put is that we are pushed toward a sort of pseudo-nonconformity that serves as a mechanism of conformity. All of my college professors, granted I'm in art school, pay lip service to the idea of rebellion and being true to yourself and being counter-cultural and how societal expectations oppress you and etc. We've heard it all before. Such advice coming from older people rings a bit hollow to someone young like me when outside in the street there's a big, shiny, and expensive billboard art also telling you to rebel and be yourself... I'm not sure I can quite make sense of why this is. Perhaps it's just that we, young people, want to feel unique and subversive but don't know how to and/or are too afraid to actually be unique and subversive.

I've read a book on zoomers, and we are very likely to trade safety and comfort for... Basically most things lol. Look at free speech support among zoomers vs their support for safe spaces. So I suspect the virtue of rebellion and individualism that has been held in such high regard in the west, at least inside think-tank circles, won't be a thing for much longer. I believe, as I observe fellow zoomers, we are becoming much more group-oriented, expressing yourself is a (really) bad thing if you end up hurting someone inside the group, and it is seen as a good thing for you to conform to the group's ideals if it means no one will get hurt.

Kinda veered outside the topic of minimalism, but those are my two cents.

 

[JihyoParkXX]

This is a vaporwave website. We embrace and cherish maximalism here.

 

[Orlando Smooth]

I've read a book on zoomers, and we are very likely to trade safety and comfort for... Basically most things lol.

What book? I'd be interested. I'm not a zoomer but I have younger relatives that are and they... confuse me. I've always found in interesting that, within my family, I'm actually much closer (generationally speaking) to my relatives who are 10+ years older than I am to those who are 10+ years younger. The difference is staggering, and since we're all in the same family, same geographic region, raised with the same values, etc., it naturally controls for a lot of the variation you'd expect to find amongst general population.

All of my college professors, granted I'm in art school, pay lip service to the idea of rebellion and being true to yourself and being counter-cultural and how societal expectations oppress you and etc. We've heard it all before. Such advice coming from older people rings a bit hollow to someone young like me when outside in the street there's a big, shiny, and expensive billboard art also telling you to rebel and be yourself... I'm not sure I can quite make sense of why this is.

I have a basic theory on why this is: rebellion is what lead to the civil rights era reforms in the US and also what lead to mainstream adoption of anti-Vietnam policies. Therefore, some of the most significant cultural victories of the late 20th century were due almost entirely to rebellion. Not to mention that the US itself was literally founded on rebellion. So for over 50 years, it has been seen as one of the highest virtues in the west due to the fact that it lead to good things happening in the US, and the US is the de facto culture maker of the western world. However, post 9/11 and especially post 2016 we began seeing exactly the opposite - the dark side of rebellion, if you will. It only makes sense that people who grew up in this era are far more skeptical of rebellion and sticking out, as we've never really had first hand experiences of them being "the good guys." This is really a reversion to the mean, in the sense that the Greatest and Silent generations were very much pro-conformity as well, but for different reasons (some good, some bad).

 

[remember_summer_days]

What book? I'd be interested. I'm not a zoomer but I have younger relatives that are and they... confuse me. I've always found in interesting that, within my family, I'm actually much closer (generationally speaking) to my relatives who are 10+ years older than I am to those who are 10+ years younger. The difference is staggering, and since we're all in the same family, same geographic region, raised with the same values, etc., it naturally controls for a lot of the variation you'd expect to find amongst general population.


I have a basic theory on why this is: rebellion is what lead to the civil rights era reforms in the US and also what lead to mainstream adoption of anti-Vietnam policies. Therefore, some of the most significant cultural victories of the late 20th century were due almost entirely to rebellion. Not to mention that the US itself was literally founded on rebellion. So for over 50 years, it has been seen as one of the highest virtues in the west due to the fact that it lead to good things happening in the US, and the US is the de facto culture maker of the western world. However, post 9/11 and especially post 2016 we began seeing exactly the opposite - the dark side of rebellion, if you will. It only makes sense that people who grew up in this era are far more skeptical of rebellion and sticking out, as we've never really had first hand experiences of them being "the good guys." This is really a reversion to the mean, in the sense that the Greatest and Silent generations were very much pro-conformity as well, but for different reasons (some good, some bad).

The book I read was called Igen by Jean M. Twenge. It's very dense and explains a lot of the more peculiar zoomer behavior. There are also some very surprising stats in there, like how zoomers get along with their parents better than other generations, to mention one example.

I definitely think you are on the right track in explaining why America has valued rebellion as a virtue for quite some time. Can you explain more about this 'Dark Side' of rebellion? I think zoomers tend to be not as fond of rebellion because it goes against our core values of safety and comfort. Rebellion, even controlled rebellion, pretends to at least be subversive, something zoomers are not really fond of.

 

[InsufferableCynic]

I doubt minimalism is some sort of intentional propaganda. However, you make a very good point about how contemporary society expects us to conform. But at the same time, I feel this weird paradox of nonconformity being a sort of conformity, or perhaps a better way to put is that we are pushed toward a sort of pseudo-nonconformity that serves as a mechanism of conformity. All of my college professors, granted I'm in art school, pay lip service to the idea of rebellion and being true to yourself and being counter-cultural and how societal expectations oppress you and etc. We've heard it all before. Such advice coming from older people rings a bit hollow to someone young like me when outside in the street there's a big, shiny, and expensive billboard art also telling you to rebel and be yourself... I'm not sure I can quite make sense of why this is. Perhaps it's just that we, young people, want to feel unique and subversive but don't know how to and/or are too afraid to actually be unique and subversive.

Yeah it's hard to put a finger on (and probably worth it's own thread), but there's a weird sort of attitude right now, which goes along the lines of "we should rebel and refuse to conform, but we should do it by supporting governments and corporations that push ideas we agree with", rather than realistically rebelling.

It's like a billboard with "the correct message" is more important to people than a company hiring hit squads to take out union leaders in other countries.

It's like morality itself has been subverted and replaced with extremely shallow, "take everything at face value", instant judgement. No thought required.

This form of rebellion reminds me of the salaried employee who feels he's "fighting the system" by stealing pens from work, while making sure to wear a nice tie and turn up on time because he doesn't want to miss out on the next promotion.

People aren't willing to actually do anything if it will involve sacrifice or any real cost to them. They want a safe, easy "rebellion" where they can pay lip service to the idea of change while sipping on a latte and not getting themselves into any actual trouble or taking any risks. Corporations are the same - always catering to the message in a calculated attempt to garner more money from these idiots. And it's working.

 

[Orlando Smooth]

I definitely think you are on the right track in explaining why America has valued rebellion as a virtue for quite some time. Can you explain more about this 'Dark Side' of rebellion?

It's kind of cliche to even say at this point, simply because it's so true, but the difference between terrorist and freedom fighter is basically who wins and gets to write the history books. While I obviously agree with the aforementioned civil rights movements of the mid/late 20th century, when teching this stuff in school we casually paper over groups such as the Weather Underground because it doesn't fit with the narrative of "they were considered radicals at the time, but really they were the good guys all along!" The reformers won, so we claim they were the good ones (correctly) and intentionally ignore those who had the same beliefs yet were objectively anti-social in how they were willing to achieve them.

Now compare that to today: who are the people rebelling against the status quo? Red hats like the Proud Boys, leftists antifa rioters, and Islamic extremists. An individual may be less critical overall of one of those groups that's vaguely aligned with the, but it's a pretty hard sell to convince the average person that any of them are moving society in the right direction. People see with their own eyes and have their own negative experiences with the exact type of groups considered rebellious by todays standards, and since none of them have truly altruistic goals, the average person no longer wants to be seen as a rebel.

 

[gwen]

I would guess that in many cases it's just cheaper and less effort to leave it bare and call it "minimal". In that case the designation acts as a labor-saving device, the same way some businesses cut out customer service in the name of covid prevention. Also "minimalism" gets used as a selling point for products, which is contradictory because consumerism is anti-minimalist. So there are the familiar conspiracies involved that abet common laziness and greed. I doubt if it goes much deeper than that.

In terms of purely possessions, we're already at that point. We pay for subscription services filled with content we don't own, discuss them on platforms we don't control, on devices that can be remotely deactivated at any time without our consent. Everything from our food to our leisure devices are heavily regulated by the government, and even something as simple as making an extension to our own house requires a whole bunch of local government approvals and forms. In most countries there are a plethora of things we simply cannot own, period, like guns, or various drugs, etc. In my state I'm not legally allowed to adopt a fox as a pet, despite wanting to.

There are always constraints on individuals. It's unavoidable and natural to chafe against them, especially when they seem to be imposed by meddling strangers, but even if you imagine a human being as a totally free and independent wild animal, which was never the reality, then society has only assumed the role that nature used to play. It's a challenge we face as people living in society to find ways as individuals to contact the world through, and sometimes in spite of, the collective. It's a challenge society faces to make it possible for all individuals, in their diversity, to find or create meaningful ways of life.

 

[ignika98]

The book I read was called Igen by Jean M. Twenge. It's very dense and explains a lot of the more peculiar zoomer behavior. There are also some very surprising stats in there, like how zoomers get along with their parents better than other generations, to mention one example.

I definitely think you are on the right track in explaining why America has valued rebellion as a virtue for quite some time. Can you explain more about this 'Dark Side' of rebellion? I think zoomers tend to be not as fond of rebellion because it goes against our core values of safety and comfort. Rebellion, even controlled rebellion, pretends to at least be subversive, something zoomers are not really fond of.

Zoomers aren't as fond of rebellion because they're much more adaptable and cynical that previous generations. They don't really see a point in rebelling against a world that they're told is fucked anyway. Better to just laugh it off and live your life.