The Stop Killing Games Movement

[MindControlBoxer]

Yea, you've cherry-picked three games that have different gameplay. But there are tons of racing games with the same concept that lasted for years and still were cool.

Like what?
The whole point of a different game its to be a different game otherwise we would just have the same game forever under a metaverse type deal. GTA its a racing game then(it is obliviously not)

I can unironically pick 100+ games that are different in the racing category But even if I show up with a basket full of cherrys you would still want the slop they're serving.

Burnout alone started with 3 and was all good until Paradise. Well, maybe with the exception of Dominator.
Racing is racing, you cannot invent much about it, and yet the genre will remain fresh as ever for those who like racing games.

Racing as a conceptual idea in the real world =/= Racing videogames

Yes you can invent all kinds of stuff about it that's why we have looney tunes space race and split/second and we also have grand turismo and the crew(or at least HAD lol)

I'm really not sure what you are trying to say here.

So, I assume, ultimately this is your answer to the question of what separates alive game from the dead one, that the corporation has the power to literally kill them? Well, that's why this movement is named "Stop Killing Games".
Overall, I do not quite disagree with this position - my answers are right there, on page 1, and I said it from the start that the best way to fight such kind of a practice would be to ignore games like this, never buying them, never playing them.
But - once again, as I already wrote on the first page - I'm just glad that there is finally a bridge too far and that people are fighting it at least somehow.
Like, true, they - the buyers, the consumers - could just not create this problem in the first place, but at least they are trying to do something about it, whether they will succeed or not.

They are going a retarded way about it that does more harm than good and has previously happened.

They want a government bailout to something that is a non-issue outside of their own personal issue. They can just as easily turn that personal issue into a non issue by having better buying practices for example, that however not only would have to have them admit that they were duped, it would also set the responsibility in their laps and solely within themselves, and judging by the adultchild redditors on this movement, very unlikely to happen.

This unfortunately does not work. For every person not buying you'll have 10000 people with no self control buying it. Doesn't mean that you should buy it (buy an indie instead) but overall it doesn't do anything to the corpo.

For every person buying fine whiskey and discussing important matters there are 10000 drunks with no self control buying cheep bear and beating their wives. Prohibition happened we fought against it, no need to bring it back.
Personal responsibility though, that's something that can be worked upon on.

The corpo its the corpo, they are bad big and evil, but the have no powers to force things like the government does.
These guys either have the memory of a goldfish or are unable to face the fact that they made a financial decision(not only financial but time wise maybe even emotional attachment wise) that didn't pan out and want a government bail out except that the bailout goes against decades of things that were fought for.
We already had the government tell the corpos what they can and cannot put games, in some places we still do, that shit sucked, we fought against it period.

Again, you can't have your cake and eat it too. You need to pick one, and we did years and years ago, people just don't remember how it was I guess.

 

[Ross_Я]

Like what?

Like. Fucking. Burnout. Series.
There are tons of them, even outside the series. When Ridge Racer gave their license to Bugbear and they tried to make their own Burnout named Unbounded, it was also quite a cool game, if polarizing since it had a Ridge Racer title.

Yes you can invent all kinds of stuff about it that's why we have looney tunes space race and split/second and we also have grand turismo and the crew(or at least HAD lol)

Alright, since you are so stubborn, I'll simplify. There are two genres: there are arcade racing games and there are simulators.
You are indeed can "invent" quite many things in the arcade racing, because they are arcade, but it is, in the core of them, still racing. You cannot really go all "souls-like-rogue-lite" mix-it-all-up on racing - at the core of it, racing games will be racing. Probably the most creative things out of literal dozens things I've tried was when GRID introduced rewind. And that was it.
But alright, Let's skip the arcades. There are also simulators. You literally cannot invent nothing radically new in the simulators, and yet they are out there again and again. Gran Turismo, Forza Motorsport, Project Gotham Racing, Driveclub, et cetera.

They want a government bailout to something that is a non-issue outside of their own personal issue. They can just as easily turn that personal issue into a non issue by having better buying practices for example, that however not only would have to have them admit that they were duped, it would also set the responsibility in their laps and solely within themselves, and judging by the adultchild redditors on this movement, very unlikely to happen.

As already been said, this is true. Whether whatever they are doing will do more harm or good - time will tell.

I'm really not sure what you are trying to say here

I was just trying to understand what your idea of a "dead" game is, since you've mentioned that Assasin's Creed 32 is a dead game. Though now it seems that a "dead game" is simply the one that has been turned off by the devs.
It is hard to talk to you, since you dodge the core of a question like it's a landmine, and instead go for the little points, that were really only written there to provide my personal outlook and make the post a bit more lively, not to argue with you about something. Funny you called me AI - it seems to me like I should talk with you like with an AI: only giving you a short and precise question. Because otherwise you are diluting the answer into a lengthy discourse about everything but the thing I actually asked.
Though, frankly, I'm quite sure you are doing it on purpose.
Just for the sake of it, here are the core questions of my last two messages:

What exactly separates an "alive" game from a corpse though?

So are Assasin's Creeds. Or they were last time I've checked. Yet you call Assassin's Creed 32 a dead game. Why?

This unfortunately does not work. For every person not buying you'll have 10000 people with no self control buying it. Doesn't mean that you should buy it (buy an indie instead) but overall it doesn't do anything to the corpo.

Yeah, that's pretty much the whole problem. But we still gotta stick to not buying it. Maybe one day we eventually will become the majority, albeit, of course, I seriously doubt it.

 

[punisheddead]

Personal responsibility though, that's something that can be worked upon on.

(...)

Again, you can't have your cake and eat it too. You need to pick one, and we did years and years ago, people just don't remember how it was I guess.

Yeah, that's pretty much the whole problem. But we still gotta stick to not buying it. Maybe one day we eventually will become the majority, albeit, of course, I seriously doubt it.

I could not agree more, my friends. I'm all for it and have been doing my part for years, I'm hoping everyone else will eventually do the same and corpos will get the message but uh... I ain't holding my breath.

 

[admin]

Keep the thread on topic

 

[Antoine]

Keep the thread on topic

I don't see why this is necessary. This thread isn't a problem solving operation. And anyway the tangents in question were constantly coming back to the subject of the thread, the killing of games. If we limit ourselves strictly to the topic what is there even to say?

 

[keep]

I expect a product I purchased to be able to work for years after I buy it. If if doesn't, then I should be able to fix it by myself in case the company goes under. If my product is going to expire, I want to be told how long it will last for. I don't see a "Best Before" date on any of these live-service games, do you?

 

[MindControlBoxer]

I don't see why this is necessary. This thread isn't a problem solving operation. And anyway the tangents in question were constantly coming back to the subject of the thread, the killing of games. If we limit ourselves strictly to the topic what is there even to say?

My son this is the part where the short bus driver tells you to get off.

If you don't have any thing to say pertaining to videogames or the why or who, etc . then you can make another thread for whatever it is.

Like. Fucking. Burnout. Series.

How can you say that when burnout 3 takedown completely changed the format of the games by introducing new mechanics and actually made the franchise a household name solely due to the change of gameplay. Burnout 1 and 2 are completely different games than what 3 ended up being. They changed the game so much that burnout 3 doesn't even have the burnout mechanic that gives the series its name.

You want to argue just to argue

Alright, since you are so stubborn, I'll simplify. There are two genres: there are arcade racing games and there are simulators.
You are indeed can "invent" quite many things in the arcade racing, because they are arcade, but it is, in the core of them, still racing. You cannot really go all "souls-like-rogue-lite" mix-it-all-up on racing - at the core of it, racing games will be racing

This is out side of the thread topic so im just gonna post this, but you are obviously wrong, driver san francisco has literally you be a ghost police officer while clearly being part of the same series, other games include stuntman, carmageddon, etc etc etc.

I can unironically pick 100+ games that are different in the racing category But even if I show up with a basket full of cherrys you would still want the slop they're serving.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d8W2qBeTPM

There are also simulators. You literally cannot invent nothing radically new in the simulators, and yet they are out there again and again. Gran Turismo, Forza Motorsport, Project Gotham Racing, Driveclub, et cetera.

You can other wise there would be no new simulators put out and you would just play the same one, why didn't we then just play gran turismo 1 instead of whatever the fuck now.(Hint, it because the changes they made to all the game ) Why would there even BE different simulator games then if they're all the same? Why would people buy them?

I was just trying to understand what your idea of a "dead" game is, since you've mentioned that Assasin's Creed 32 is a dead game. Though now it seems that a "dead game" is simply the one that has been turned off by the devs.
It is hard to talk to you, since you dodge the core of a question like it's a landmine, and instead go for the little points, that were really only written there to provide my personal outlook and make the post a bit more lively, not to argue with you about something. Funny you called me AI - it seems to me like I should talk with you like with an AI: only giving you a short and precise question. Because otherwise you are diluting the answer into a lengthy discourse about everything but the thing I actually asked.

No I called you a slavic AI because i can switch you with any other slavic Записки из подполья and the posts would be exactly the same, its conceptual not internal.

I already had the same discussion at least 3 times with the same slavs over the same exact racing game shit, and it happens with them just saying, "yea but I like what I like", which is fine, its ok to eat at mcdonalds.

You want to argue just to argue.

What exactly separates an "alive" game from a corpse though?

So are Assasin's Creeds. Or they were last time I've checked. Yet you call Assassin's Creed 32 a dead game. Why?

Alive as in spiritually alive(as in zeitgeist) not just financially, as in the core audience its still the audience (which is not)as but financially could play a part of it i guess, but that is a game killed by the people, not by the corporation which is outside of the scope here. The concept of soul it is not easy(or even desirable) to grasp if you are content with the concept of slop.

Star wars its spiritually dead but financially successful, but i don't think anybody would argue that when the new star wars drops the cultural impact its the same.

There was a time that Ubisoft was on top of the gaming world every single assassins creed drop was not only highly expected and salivated upon but also praised due to its cultural impact on society's a whole, Nowadays the response its mostly negative by the people and those not paid to do it.
Assassins creed its in the exact same spot as franchises like starwars or pokemon for the matter, in which it was very influential and innovative for the time of its existence but its being reworked so many times that it is the same thing only in name, however the name at one point carried weight, like fat elvis, its still elvis in name sure but its not the elvis you remember nor the one you think of when mentioned, it is a shell of itself, a corpse, propped up by gambling, marketing and whaling rather than gameplay and story, the aspects that made it what it is in the first place, not the microtransactions or the dopamine firing numbers must go up quests.

10 years later vs 3 years later
One has soul, one is hylic.

Assassin's Creed titles players 2023 | Statista

In October 2023, ten years after its initial release, the open-world RPG Assassin's Creed Black Flag reported 34 million players.

www.statista.com

Things with soul within live forever in the zeitgeist, corpses are propped up by the machine then forgotten about once the next vessel shows up.

----------------------

Which to bring it all together in the end

The crew was soulless from the start, and they told you(the customer) it was, if you are satisfied with the bread and circus shuck jiving that is totally fine, after all you like what you like. But they did not lie to you or anybody else.
The game was rigged from the start, and you fell for it since you are content within the slop, you put your head up and keep it moving, you do not cry for daddy to bail you out of something that you yourself choose to do, especially if that is going to trample on things previously fought for.

-------------------

I expect a product I purchased to be able to work for years after I buy it. If if doesn't, then I should be able to fix it by myself in case the company goes under. If my product is going to expire, I want to be told how long it will last for. I don't see a "Best Before" date on any of these live-service games, do you?

TERMS OF USE OF THE UBISOFT SERVICES

legal.ubi.com

4.1 General. We do not guarantee that the Services will be available at all times, in all locations worldwide, and/or on all devices. We do not guarantee that we will continue to offer any Service for any minimum period of time. We reserve the right to terminate all or part of the Services at any time.

 

[punisheddead]

The whole Helldivers situation I believe is relevant to the topic, it being an online game and being taken away from a massive chunk of the player base.

For those that don't know Sony forced the devs of their hit Helldivers 2 to implement a mandatory linking of their steam account to a PSN account. So, what's the big deal?

Well ignoring the fact that Sony has horrible security and you'd be more secure writing your SSN and CC info on a piece of paper and throwing it out the window, PSN accounts aren't available globally and for those that can't make one they essentially have a digital paperweight. But they can bypass it with a VPN or something, right? Not quite, Sony often pulls a Blizzard requiring an ID or passport and if it's not provided you will be banned.

Overall, an estimated 177 countries/territories have lost access to the game and Sony has doubled down removing storefronts for said countries. Luckily good guy Valve has stepped in and is issuing refunds to those affected, regardless of play time.

Not the first time something like this has happened, but it is the first time to have happened to such an active game.

Edit: they ended up reversing it.

 

[manpaint]

The whole Helldivers situation I believe is relevant to the topic, it being an online game and being taken away from a massive chunk of the player base.

For those that don't know Sony forced the devs of their hit Helldivers 2 to implement a mandatory linking of their steam account to a PSN account. So, what's the big deal?

Well ignoring the fact that Sony has horrible security and you'd be more secure writing your SSN and CC info on a piece of paper and throwing it out the window, PSN accounts aren't available globally and for those that can't make one they essentially have a digital paperweight. But they can bypass it with a VPN or something, right? Not quite, Sony often pulls a Blizzard requiring an ID or passport and if it's not provided you will be banned.

Overall, an estimated 177 countries/territories have lost access to the game and Sony has doubled down removing storefronts for said countries. Luckily good guy Valve has stepped in and is issuing refunds to those affected, regardless of play time.

Not the first time something like this has happened, but it is the first time to have happened to such an active game.

I am not very familar with this game, but a quick Google search seems to indicate that the entirety of the game is multiplayer. At first glance the game seems to have very legit reason to require an account (like a MMORPG), but I then remembered that Quake III Arena is a thing. If I am not mistaken, this game has a central server (though its not the only option) and yet the game require no accounts to play. So yeah, they have no "logical" reason to do this. Well they do have a reasontho ,it being them wanting more control.

 

[punisheddead]

So yeah, they have no "logical" reason to do this. Well they do have a reason tho ,it being them wanting more control.

The game was already on steam fully playable for a few months, like with quake steam is more then enough security and authentication for an online only game. This was certainly a move for more control and data, a very dumb one if you ask me.

 

[manpaint]

The game was already on steam fully playable for a few months, like with quake steam is more then enough security and authentication for an online only game. This was certainly a move for more control and data, a very dumb one if you ask me.

Even then Quake III is available on GOG and can be completely separated from the account (i.e gifting the executable to your friend). The game also has a free demo that can be used to play online.

Even when the cornern of cheating is brought to the table, I think just letting people make their own servers would lead to a natural fix.

Alas, compagnies do not really like this as it's not possible to sell microtransaction in a game without a centralized server (among other reason), so the "good model" kinda died out.

I think what suck the most in those situation is all the people playing those types of game that have no idea this can happens. From what I have seen, the younger generation REALLY like live service games. They will be for a bad time when they will inevitably lose acess to their favorite. I think the most insidious thing will be growing up and slowly realizing that planned obsolesence is a thing and thus curse your past self for becoming attached to a transient game. This certainly how I feel about RuneScape.

 

[punisheddead]

Even when the cornern of cheating is brought to the table, I think just letting people make their own servers would lead to a natural fix.

Alas, compagnies do not really like this as it's not possible to sell microtransaction in a game without a centralized server (among other reason), so the "good model" kinda died out.

Having community servers would not only help cheating but the longevity of the game as well, unfortunately everyone even good guy valve has moved away from community servers and in turn has made their games shittier.

I think what suck the most in those situation is all the people playing those types of game that have no idea this can happens. From what I have seen, the younger generation REALLY like live service games. They will be for a bad time when they will inevitably lose access to their favorite.

Yep, and many of those that do know don't care. Much of the younger generation gets bored long before a live service game dies supporting the disposable live service game industry. I don't like to rag on the consumer too much but a large majority through their spending habits show that they're perfectly fine with this whole system. The truth is that many of them might not even know better.

They will be for a bad time when they will inevitably lose access to their favorite. I think the most insidious thing will be growing up and slowly realizing that planned obsolescence is a thing and thus curse your past self for becoming attached to a transient game. This certainly how I feel about RuneScape.

I see kiddos be nostalgic over Fortnite season one, it's tragic. At least you and I can come back to our old school favorites in some way to relive the nostalgia, something that they just won't be able to for the most part.

 

[manpaint]

I see kiddos be nostalgic over Fortnite season one, it's tragic. At least you and I can come back to our old school favorites in some way to relive the nostalgia, something that they just won't be able to for the most part.

This is sadly not a new thing. If you ever saw a MMORPG community, you will quickly realize that people are very splitted on which version is the best. This obviously because people have different point of references.

I sure as hell do not envy the kids who might grow up with cloud gaming online games. At least with MMORPGs and live service game there is possibility to join a shallow private server if the game/era is popular enough.

 

[Antoine]

Controversy

At launch, Helldivers 2 did not require PC players to log into a PlayStation Network (PSN) account, allowing players to skip the integration despite a line on boot up stating that a PSN account is required. On 3 May 2024, Sony Interactive Entertainment announced that the PC version of Helldivers 2 on Steam would mandate users to sign in with a PSN account, taking effect for new players on 6 May, and required for existing players by 4 June. SIE stated that a PSN login is necessary to "[uphold] the values of safety and security provided on PlayStation and PlayStation Studios games", and that this requirement was not implemented at launch due to technical issues.[58] The announcement was met with criticism.[59] Additionally, many players called out that official documentation from Sony claimed that PSN accounts were optional for games on PC, with this statement changing to an ambiguous "some" statement[60][61] after players were directed to contact Sony support by Pilestedt.[62] On 4 May, the listing on Steam was updated to disallow sales to 177 countries where PSN is not available.[63]

Pilestedt apologized for the sudden change, stating on X that "I hope we will make it up and regain the trust by providing a continued great game experience".[64] Developers inside Arrowhead Game Studios stated that they were on the side of the players and called for the player base to negatively review the game on Steam,[65] leading to players review bombing the game; as of 4 May, nearly 53% of all posted reviews were negative,[66][67][68] with over 84,000 negative reviews on Steam.[69] As a result of the negative feedback, Sony announced on May 5 that it will currently not be moving forward in requiring account linking.[70]

How many people have commented on the fact the stated aims of doing this are (were?) ideological? "the values and safety and security provided on Playstation", my understanding here is that they want to ban you from the game for life if you say "niggеr".

Otherwise we have suggestions they're after "more control and data". Does that really hold? What for? If that was to make more money, then this backfired terribly. If these people were greedy and had been refining their greedy ways for decades now, you'd think they'd be good at this kind of thing by now.

Again, I don't believe that Greed is a meaningful factor in anything that happens in video games and no white person lives in a capitalist country.

My son this is the part where the short bus driver tells you to get off.

If you don't have any thing to say pertaining to videogames or the why or who, etc . then you can make another thread for whatever it is.

Niggеr

 

[Some_porcupine]

How can you say that when burnout 3 takedown completely changed the format of the games by introducing new mechanics and actually made the franchise a household name solely due to the change of gameplay. Burnout 1 and 2 are completely different games than what 3 ended up being. They changed the game so much that burnout 3 doesn't even have the burnout mechanic that gives the series its name.

Tho this is real thing, many came for iirc fallout(?) games , disliked the newer ones, and then stayed for older ones,

even if the newer game first made the game mainstream, maybe even for how sloppy it is, or for just how the older ones (in series) are "forgotten gem",

with maybe bunch of clickbait videos, - similar to how DIT "essays" brought people from all corners of normieweb here...

 

[MindControlBoxer]

The whole Helldivers situation I believe is relevant to the topic, it being an online game and being taken away from a massive chunk of the player base.

For those that don't know Sony forced the devs of their hit Helldivers 2 to implement a mandatory linking of their steam account to a PSN account. So, what's the big deal?

Well ignoring the fact that Sony has horrible security and you'd be more secure writing your SSN and CC info on a piece of paper and throwing it out the window, PSN accounts aren't available globally and for those that can't make one they essentially have a digital paperweight. But they can bypass it with a VPN or something, right? Not quite, Sony often pulls a Blizzard requiring an ID or passport and if it's not provided you will be banned.

Overall, an estimated 177 countries/territories have lost access to the game and Sony has doubled down removing storefronts for said countries. Luckily good guy Valve has stepped in and is issuing refunds to those affected, regardless of play time.

Not the first time something like this has happened, but it is the first time to have happened to such an active game.

Edit: they ended up reversing it.

The reversal of this by playerbase pressure its how these things should go 10/10, all the people need to do its come together and held the companies to a accountable standard.

The companies are evil but they're nor retarded, no matter what they know their userbase. They need us more than we need them.

 

[Antoine]

The reversal of this by playerbase pressure its how these things should go 10/10, all the people need to do its come together and held the companies to a accountable standard.

The companies are evil but they're nor retarded, no matter what they know their userbase. They need us more than we need them.

How about we hold western AAA companies accountable to make a good video game?

 

[Some_porcupine]

The reversal of this by playerbase pressure its how these things should go 10/10, all the people need to do its come together and held the companies to a accountable standard.

The companies are evil but they're nor retarded, no matter what they know their userbase. They need us more than we need them.

No if it is "necessities" (higher standards, compared to past), check-mate

 

[Vitnira]

For the second post specifically, as the answer is not obvious: if you love indie games and want to support them - instead of buying them actually take some fucking time and contact devs. Ask them if you can send your money directly. Ask them if you can help in any other way.

(Late) You know, this was a really good comment. Since switching away from google services I've been contacting indie app devs to see if I can pay for their apps an alternate way since google services are normally required for that. I have a few I've paid for now. Good stuff.

I will say 90% of the reason I still buy from Steam (I was buying from GoG for a while), is that I'm actually buying Proton. Having games Just Work on Linux is worth the cost to me. When Steam inevitably gets bought and starts sucking it'll be back to piracy and Wine.

I sometime curse myself for liking RuneScape so much as that game will inevitably dissapear.

Funny you use an example of an always-online game that won't disappear! I'm currently playing a private WoW server because Blizz sucks ballz, and I know there's plenty of RSPSes out there.

(For the rest of the discussion I will refer to the youtube ross as YTRoss to avoid confusion)
The work of people of the same mindset as YTRoss is helping to preserve games. With enough love and passion, people will recreate servers. There is a Hacker spirit on the web that can't be killed entirely.

What I'm hoping for is that the legal stuff YTRoss engages in will make it so server code dumps are a required part of End of Life of any Always-Online game. Or a stripped down open source server is required at release. I'd love to see the shitloads of private servers WoW/RS have, for other games.

 

[Ashman]

I will say 90% of the reason I still buy from Steam (I was buying from GoG for a while), is that I'm actually buying Proton.

You can run Proton without steam. That is what I do.